I’m not trying to rain on any specific parade here, but every single weekend during summer in Toronto, streets are closed for something.
If our infrastructure was better, perhaps we wouldn’t have anything to complain about.
But with automobile and pedestrian congestion at an all-time high, should the city of Toronto be closing this many streets and major intersections? Or are the events themselves what makes Toronto what it is?
It’s going to be hard to write this without coming off as a grouch.
I recognize how important social events are in Toronto, specifically cultural ones, that shine a light on Toronto as the most multi-cultural city in the world.
I love this city, and I’m passionate about it.
I would never want to be accused of hating on, or putting down events that I don’t attend, however I do want to raise the question of whether all of these events, festivals, and gatherings create value add to the city.
Case in point: the 2015 Pan-Am Games.
It’s the games that nobody asked for in Toronto, nobody cares about, nobody really wants, and yet we’re having them next summer at a major cost to taxpayers, and at a major inconvenience to downtown-dwellers.
The Commonwealth Games were just held in Glasgow, Scotland, and while I’m proud of our athletes who represented the country we live in and love, I have to be honest when I say that I didn’t watch any of it, follow it at all, and I really couldn’t have cared less about it.
Same goes for the Pan-Am Games.
There is only one Olympic Games, and while I’m sure the mother of a Canadian shot-putter from Saskatchewan would be pissed at me for suggesting this, I have to think that the Commonwealth Games and Pan-Am Games are meaningless in comparison to the Olympics.
Topic for another day, I suppose. But From July 10th to July 26th, 2015, the City of Toronto will be an absolute nightmare to move around in. Whether in a car, on a bike, on foot, or on our feeble public transit system, the Games are going to wreak havoc in the downtown core. It could be worse too, if the rumours of certain lanes of traffic being only for Games competitors and staff hold true.
But the city’s roads have already been impacted by the games, and we’re still a year away. In May, June, and July, there were intermittent road closures on Lakeshore Boulevard in preparation of the Games.
We know that the Gardiner Expressway is down to two lanes until 2016, which is absolutely comical, but consider that the Lakeshore Boulevard is the only alternate route for people who don’t want to stew in traffic, and it was downright laughable to see Lakeshore Boulevard completely shut down for the Honda Indy two weekends ago.
I’m not a racecar fan, and I’m not hating in the Honda Indy itself as I know how important it is to Toronto. I just think the weekend of July 19th and 20th was a farce in the downtown core.
And this is the point I want to drive home in today’s blog.
It’s not just the fact that the Gardiner Expressway is already down a lane, and then we go and shut down the Lakeshore. It’s the fact that there were no fewer than SIX other festivals being held that weekend that shut down major intersections in Toronto.
“BIG on Bloor Festival” shut down Bloor Street West, between Lansdowne & Dufferin, from 9am on Saturday to 9pm on Sunday.
“Salsa on St. Clair” shut down St. Clair Avenue West, between Winona & Christie, from 8am on Saturday to 11pm on Sunday.
“Youth Day” shut down Yonge Street, between Queen & Dundas, from 10am to 10pm on Sunday.
“The Chinatown Festival” shut down Dundas Street West, between Spadina & Beverley, from midnight on Friday to 11pm on Sunday.
“Thrill Of The Grill” shut down Danforth Avenue, between Broadview & Jackman, from 8am to 5pm on Saturday.
And last but certainly not least, the “Live Toronto Green Festival” shut down Yonge Street, between Gerrard and Richmond, from 10am to 11:30pm on Saturday, as well as Yonge Street from Queen to Dundas.
So for those of you playing along at home, that’s ONE weekend, with no Lakeshore Boulevard thanks to the Honda Indy, the Gardiner Expressway already a parking lot, and six festivals closing major roads and intersections throughout the central core.
Are you guys okay with this?
Tell me if you are, or if you aren’t.
I’m honestly on the fence about it.
I’m putting this out there because the question needs to be asked, “When is it too much?”
I understand the importance of these events, but what is the end goal here? Is it the economic activity gained from the events? Or is it just the smiles on people’s faces? If it’s the latter, then at what cost should these events come to the rest of the people who aren’t in attendance?
I’m not going to suggest that a few extra minutes in a commute is going to kill me, but do you know how much goes into some of these events?
Take the Goodlife Toronto Marathon, for example, which was held on May 3rd. This is a complete list of road closures for the event:
Beecroft Rd. Elmhurst Ave. to Horsham Ave. (5:30 am to 9:00 am) N/B lane open for condo access.
Ellerslie Ave. Beecroft Rd. to Yonge St. (7:00 am to 9:00 am)
Churchill Ave. Beecroft Rd. to Yonge St. (7:00 am to 9:00 am)
North York Blvd. Beecroft Rd. to Yonge St. (5:30 am to 9:00 am)
Park Home Ave. Beecroft Rd. to Yonge St. (7:00 am to 9:00 am)
Yonge St. Horsham Ave. to Hwy 401 – S/B only (7:00 am to 9:00 am)
Hwy 401/Yonge St. – S/B ramps (7:00 am to 9:00 am)
Yonge St. Hwy 401 to York Mills Rd. S/B only (7:00 am to 9:00 am)
Yonge St. York Mills Rd. to Eglinton Ave. S/B only (7:00 am to 10:00 am)
Yonge St. Eglinton Ave. to Chaplin Cres. S/B only (7:30 am to 10:30 am)
Yonge St. Chaplin Cres. to Aylmer Rd. (8:30 am to 10:30 am) (½ Marathon Only)
Chaplin Cres. Yonge St. to Oriole Pkwy. W/B only (7:30 am to 10:00 am)
Oriole Pkwy. Chaplin Cres. to Lonsdale Rd. S/B only (7:30 am to 10:00 am)
Lonsdale Rd. Avenue Rd. to Spadina Rd. W/B only (8:00 am to 10:00 am)
Forest Hill Rd. Lonsdale Rd to Kilbarry Rd. N/B only (8:00 am to 10:00 am)
Kilbarry Rd. Forest Hill Rd. to Warren Rd. W/B on S/S (8:00 am to 10:00 am)
Warren Rd. Kilbarry Rd. to Lonsdale Rd. S/B (8:00 am to 10:00 am)
Spadina Rd. Lonsdale Rd. to St. Clair Ave. West S/B only (8:00 am to 10:00 am)
Spadina Rd. St. Clair Ave. West to Austin Terrace (8:00 am to 10:00 am)
Austin Terrace Spadina Rd. to Walmer Rd. 8:00 am to 10:00 am)
Walmer Rd./Kendal Ave. Austin Terrace to MacPherson Ave. (8:00 am to 10:00 am)
MacPherson Ave. Kendal Ave. to Davenport Rd. (8:00 am to 10:00 am)
Davenport Rd. MacPherson Ave. to Belmont St. (8:00 am to 10:00 am)
Belmont St. Davenport Rd. to Yonge St. (8:00 am to 10:00 am)
Aylmer Ave. Yonge St. to Rosedale Valley Rd. (8:00 am to 10:00 am)
Rosedale Valley Rd. Aylmer Rd. to Bayview Ave. (8:00 am to 11:00 am)
Bayview Ave. Rosedale Valley Rd. to Lower River St. (8:00 am to 11:00 am)
Lower River St. Bayview Ave.to King St. East (8:00 am to 11:00 am)
King St. East River St. to Sumach St. S/S only (8:00 am to 11:00 am)
Sumach St. King St. East to Eastern Ave. (8:00 am to 11:30 am)
Eastern Ave. Sumach St. to Front St. East (8:00 am to 11:30 am)
Front St. East Eastern Ave. to Wellington St. East (8:00 am to 11:30 am)
Wellington St. East/West Front St. East to John St. (8:00 am to 11:30 am)
John St. Wellington St. West to Front St. West (8:00 am to 12:00 pm)
Front St. West John St. to Bathurst St. (8:00 am to 12:00 pm)
Bathurst St. Front St. West to Fort York Blvd. (8:00 am to 12:30 pm)
Fort York Blvd. Bathurst St. to Lake Shore Blvd. West (8:00 am to 12:30 pm)
Marine Parade Dr. Humber Bay Park East to Waterfront Dr. (8:30 am to 4:00 pm)
Waterfront Dr. Marine Parade Dr. to Palace Pier Ct. (8:30 am to 4:00 pm)
Lake Shore Blvd. West E/B curb lane from just east of the Humber River to Ontario Place Blvd. (8:30 am to 3:00 pm) Access to roads on the south side will be permitted when safe to do so.
All told, you have to interrupt the entire city of Toronto to hold this event, and this is just one of the many events that takes place every summer in Toronto.
So is it worth it?
And if it’s not, then how do we pick and choose?
Caribana, Pride, Taste of the Danforth, Woofstock, Summer Solstice, Buskerfest, Beaches Jazz Fest, Waterfront Festival, Franco Fete, and I’m sure a dozen other well-known, exceptionally popular events require us to close down city streets, in addition to the ones we’ve mentioned above.
So how do we balance a shortage of infrastructure and transit with a need for city streets?
Or is the former the point we should be examining?
I’m pleased to see that transit is the debate that’s fueling the 2014 Mayoral election in Toronto, but it’s about ten years too late. Beneath all the debate and conversation is the fact that the roads themselves are just as big a problem.
I was trying to think the other day – when was the last time I drove by Union Station on Front Street? Has it been two years, three years? How long has one of the most important streets in the downtown core been shut down? And would we ever see that in Chicago or New York? Do you think Park Avenue & 42nd Street in Manhattan would be closed down for three years outside Grand Central Station?
Have you driven on Charles Street lately? It’s been bashed to hell by thousands of trucks delivering supplies to the bevy of condominiums under construction along that route, but when is the street going to be fixed, and who is going to pay for it? Yes, it’s a city street, but it’s the condo developers who are responsible for smashing the crap out of it. So why do we let this happen?
The roads are miserable, the transit is futile, and when we do want to have a street festival (or ten…) in Toronto, the problems are exacerbated by the poor infrastructure.
Is it the chicken, or the egg?
Should we complain about the festivals that close down the streets, or the streets, highways, and transit that aren’t ample enough to support the city (let alone the city when it’s full of closures…) in the first place?
Or maybe I’m way off base here.
Maybe we, as Torontonians, suffer through such long, hard winters, that when the summer finally comes around, we should be out in the streets celebrating every single weekend.
Toronto truly is the city where there’s always something happening, and I think that makes us unique.
What do we do moving forward? Status quo, and learn to deal with it? Or is there a happy answer?
Potato
at 7:51 am
Definitely way too many street closures for events IMHO.
There should be some kind of dedicated locale in Toronto to host many of these events, like an Exhibition Place — wait, we have one of those! And it’s friggin’ empty half the time in August and September! (they’ve cleared the calendar for June and July already so I can’t check if it was fully booked for the closures in those months but I doubt it).
moonbeam!
at 8:33 am
I agree with Potato — why do we have festivals on the streets, when there are city squares and parks galore?? as for races and parades, why not on race tracks??
As for transit construction, why not do it in stages… most of the time, I see no work or workers on much of the blocked off route…. the workers & machines huddle on one spot, while the rest of the blocked-off route sits empty and quiet…. Hmmm, if a woman was in charge…..
Thanx David for this post!
Kyle
at 9:05 am
There’s an obvious connection between these events and the vibrancy, health and success of our city. It’s not a coincidence that all these events, take place South of Bloor and the hottest neighbourhoods also happen to be South of Bloor. In fact the $/sq ft in hot South of Bloor neighbourhoods is now overlapping with those of Forest Hill and Lawrence Park. Strong BIA’s and strong events make Toronto an attractive place to live. That’s the point of living in a big city and that’s a big part of what’s driving the demand to live in these urban neighbourhoods. These events also directly or indirectly boost our economy and add to the city’s revenue. So i find it odd that people will complain about property taxes out of one side of their mouth and then complain about the inconvenience caused by these events out of the other. Frankly i don’t get why anyone would choose to live in Toronto, and then complain because it isn’t more like Kitchener. to me the solution is simple – move to Kitchener, but oh yeah, then you’d have to give up all those things you like about Toronto. Sorry can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Chroscklh
at 5:28 pm
Gentlemen Kyle make very important point. Well typed, friend. Does Etobicoke guy know why his bungalow worth $800k? Because it minutes away from vibrant, fun city where people want to work and live and play. You want cake and eat? Attend events, but leave car at home – if no can attend, no live in city, be happy events bring in lots of people who spend money here, subsidizing your taxes. Hate movie shoot on street? Can be very not convenient – but city RENTs streets to fat-cat hollywood guys at big fees.
jeff316
at 9:40 am
Want free flowing streets with minimal interruptions? Go live in the burbs. These things sure are annoying but they’re one of the costs of living in the city.
Joe Q.
at 10:38 am
There was a good piece in the G&M a few weeks back about this very issue.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/not-everyone-loves-salsa-st-clair-street-festival-a-nightmare-for-some-businesses/article19678511/?page=all
The short version is that street festivals are detrimental to many businesses, but beneficial to some others (especially in the food services industry).
For me, it’s nice to see activity in the streets, but beyond a certain point many of these festivals begin to look the same, at which point one has to wonder why there are so many, and why so many of them have to take place on the street rather than in a park (as previously mentioned).
As for Union Station — I don’t know about New York and Chicago, but our Union Station is a hub for something like 300,000 TTC and GO passengers each day, and I’d be surprised if more than a quarter of that number passes by it on Front Street via automobile, even when the road is fully open. The station is badly in need of expansion and I think that in this case, public-transit requirement trump the needs of drivers on Front Street. It’s easier to re-route road traffic than to re-route a train track. IMO.
A Grant
at 12:49 pm
David,
I take your point with respect to the closing of major arterials such as Lakeshore, but local streets for the events you listed? Not so much.
No doubt I will be accused of being another foot soldier in the never ending war against the almighty car, but it’s about time that streets are viewed as serving a function beyond getting car-based commuters from point A to point B. Slowly (and I mean very slowly), we are moving away from this model towards a multi-use and multi-modal vision, including complete streets, in recognition that real people actually live there. Each of the streets you listed should be regarded as a neighbourhood main street, each with their own unique life and vibrancy – which includes the occasional street party.
If that causes a traffic delay for those who do not live in the neighbourhood, so be it.
Of course, as you noted, the real problem is the lack of foresight and investment in public transportation in order to ease congestion in the first place.
Kyle
at 1:29 pm
Best quote i read today, “Trying to solve traffic problems by building more roads is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger trousers”
bo
at 8:46 am
That is utter bullshit.
It’s like trying to use the modern internet through dial up. SImple Physics.
People like you give politicians the ammo they need to continue the war on teh car.
Kyle
at 9:22 am
Just because you’re not smart enough to grasp the concept of elasticity, doesn’t mean it’s bullshit. What actually is political bullshit, is the very term “war on cars”.
Amelia Haynes
at 9:32 am
A Grant – well said.
Traffic delays would exist with or without these road closures. It’s a complex problem that can’t be blamed on any single source. I am of the opinion that on an individual basis at least, traffic can be largely avoided IF you’re willing to really look at the logistics of travel and make it a priority in your life.
With regard to general gridlock in the city – I don’t think cars are the problem so much as people choosing to live so far from where they work & play. But not everyone suffers. One option is moving east of Yonge, south of the DVP. You’ll find yourself going against the flow of ordinary traffic, morning, noon and night! You also avoid the sun in your eyes at dusk/dawn. Oh, and you’ll find more affordable housing options there too. Oh, and you’ll have plenty of parking! Two cars? No problem. Want a back yard AND a front yard. No problem! Quiet streets for your kids to play on. No problem! You may also see higher returns on your real estate investments over the long haul because property values have room to grow.
ScottyP
at 2:22 am
Sorry Amelia, you lost me there. South of the DVP, a north-south arterial? Where is that, exactly?
Jeremy
at 1:46 pm
Pretty much everything in Toronto is compounded by the construction on the Gardiner right now unfortunately. I would argue that the problem is not necessarily the number of festivals but the cumulative effect of having them at the same time, and the net impact. The Toronto Marathon turned a 2 minute drive from a rental company (the driveway to which was completely blocked by the marathon and nobody came to guide me out despite promises from the traffic cops that that would happen) into a 30 min detour, followed by not being able to get to the highway because I was blocked by a different part of the route. It was ridiculous.
At a party to watch the World Cup final this came up and roughly 8 out of 10 said the impact from so many closures is too much – notably, none of us drive on a regular basis and we STILL think its crazy. Most agreed that they would happily donate money to a charity rather than have a charity marathon/event cause chaos through the whole city. There are many parks and trails in the city, why are we closing major roads like Yonge Street??? There is value to these events, but they need to be planned better to ensure that we are getting the most benefit, and minimizing the cost to the city.
DavidP
at 2:57 pm
I think lumping Union Station in with the street festival closures is unfair because that particular project will increase transit capacity and it being a hub of subway, regional rail, and trains means that major investments are felt by everyone across the region. It will be great once completed.
As for NYC and Chicago, Park Avenue would not be where it is today if they didn’t work many years ago to put all of the train lines under street level. And same for Chicago with trains underneath large portions of the city (including buildings like the Boeing building).
JC
at 3:24 pm
I’m not sure if it was Indy weekend (I think it was) but there was also a baseball game and a concert at the ACC.
AND that weekend, the TTC decided to do track work between Islington and Kipling station, so if you were hoping to avoid traffic by taking the subway, forget it. You’re put on Shuttle buses.
There is so much wrong with this city, I don’t know where to begin, but a LOT of it seems to be lack of thought put into scheduling things. I’ve lived in other large, metropolitan cities that actually DO infrastructure work and it doesn’t seem to take years for a project like whatever is going on with the Gardiner right now. I lived in a neighborhood in Tokyo that had a new subway built, roads reconstructed and buildings put up without the hassles, damage and inconvenience we’re subjected to here.
I recently took a flight into the Island airport and by the time I actually got through the mess at Union Station and home (Jarvis & Wellesley), I think it would have been faster flying into Pearson.
Perhaps some of it stems from having a completely ineffective Mayor and council, but that would seem to be a small part of it.
Scotty
at 7:05 pm
What you descibed sounded like an incredibly healthy city. I think many other cities would love to have neighbourhood pride and street festivals going on. Besides, there are other ways to get around besides a car!
Scotty
at 7:07 pm
Also, there is money set aside from developments on the street and plans to completely redo Charles once the condos are finished. There’s no point in trying to do streetwork while construction is going on. If they did, I’m sure we’d get a rant from you complaining about that!
ScottyP
at 2:25 am
^ If you’re sure about that Scotty Brethren, then I’ll take your word for it.
On second thought, I’ll believe that the developers will fix the mess they’ve created on Charles Street once I’ve seen it.
AndrewB
at 9:11 pm
I agree with everyone that all of these events make the city healthy and vibrant. I just think it’s really silly that major events happen across the city and then the TTC closes the entire Bloor Danforth line. So you can’t get into the city by subway that well, or by car, and GO sucks on the weekend.
I live downtown now but feel for those who try to get into the city to enjoy what the city has to offer, but Its so difficult for them to do so.
Joe Q.
at 10:43 am
When did the TTC close the whole B-D line? Isolated segments, yes, but the whole line?
In any case, while these closures are a PITA, at some point the TTC has to get this work done. Either they mess up everyone’s work-day commute or they mess up weekend travel. If segments of the subway have to be closed for repair work, a summer weekend is likely the least disruptive option.
bo
at 8:47 am
Healthy and vibrant? My ass.
It’s liberal nonsense.
ScottyP
at 2:26 am
bo needs a cookie!
WEB
at 12:00 am
I 100% agree with the post. By the way, let’s add bike lanes to the mix!
Richmond and Adelaide will get full fledged bike lanes that stretch across the entire core next year. I travel along these roads during rush hour. I’ve had a few dozen commutes over the past year that took me 30 minutes just to get from York St. to Sherbourne along Adelaide! I could have walked backwords faster! Traffic along Adelaide in rush hour is already at crisis levels. Putting a bike lane on it, well, she’s going to be interesting!
I take a bus along Richmond and Adelaide. If these lanes are as bad as I’m sure they’re going to be, I will stop taking the TTC bus and I will buy a car and drive in! I live 10KM from my work to my home. When these bike lanes go in, I estimate that my front door to front door commute will go from about 50 minutes to 1 hour and 30 minutes. In case you are wondering, I’m not actually making this up! I really do think there are counsellors in this city that think it is perfectly acceptable to have a commute time of 1 hour and 30 minutes over a 10KM distance!
Anyone that uses Adelaide St, please beware!
On another note, I know several people who live in this city that go out far less today than just 5 years ago because of traffic. They go out less to restaurants, sporting events, concerts, etc because of the time it takes them to get there. Their lifestyle is materially reduced! And it is just going to get worse. I believe the very health of the city is at risk as are property values.
Myself, I own a house on a 25 ft lot and have always thought I’d like to move up to a bigger house on a 50 ft lot. I’m not so sure I want to do that anymore. When a company is badly managed, it eventually gets reflected in that company’s financial performance and its stock price. I believe a city is no different. Again, beware!
A Grant
at 7:16 am
Sorry, but your solution to your traffic woes (which are caused by too many cars) is… to buy a car? Look, in any major metropolis, you simply cannot build any more roads in the core. The only solution is to encourage people to get out of their vehicles and use alternative modes.
WEB
at 8:38 am
Yes, I agree 100% with your post! The only solution is to encourage people to get out of their cars as you said. But in this case, putting in these bike lanes is not only encouraging me to buy a car and drive but it is FORCING me to do so. The fact that you cannot understand that to me is simply astonishing.
Joe Q.
at 8:57 am
Perhaps it’s time to find another TTC route.
Amelia Haynes
at 9:46 am
Bike lanes are forcing you to buy a car? Where is the logic in that? Suggestion: Buy a bike instead! A reasonably fit person can ride 10km in 20 minutes. Come on people!! Don’t like being all sweaty when you get to work? Well … 1.5 hours less twenty minutes gives you another 70 minutes to have a shower, change, cool off, have a coffee, relax! Or, you can take the extra time and ride like you’re not in a rush.
Joe Q.
at 10:37 am
Amelia: I agree that a bike is probably the best solution here, at least for the non-snowy months, but 10 km in 20 min would be a challenge even for a very fit cyclist (unless the trip were “downhill both ways” and there were no red lights). For a typical cyclist it’s probably a leisurely 35-40 minute ride. Still very doable.
Amelia Haynes
at 12:03 pm
Joe Q. – Doable and fun. 🙂 There’s nothing like getting to work in the morning feeling awake and on a natural high. Biking home is also a great way of releasing tension after the work day.
I wish people would think beyond the potential time savings though. There are other benefits to leaving the car at home. If I’m driving in heavy traffic for 10 minutes, I’m ready to commit murder. And I’m not exaggerating. Spending time stuck in traffic is harmful on so many levels. It feels like sh*t and It takes a huge emotional toll on all of us. What would we be doing in the time if we had it back? Better question to ask.
WEB
at 12:20 pm
Ok Amelia. Any other suggestions for me? Feel free to send me a list of everything I SHOULD do!
Kyle
at 9:53 am
@WEB
“The only solution is to encourage people to get out of their cars as you said.”
People need to think outside of that small box. it isn’t just transit vs driving. What about:
– trying a different route
– travelling at a different time
– working remotely
I think you’ve misplaced a whole bunch of your “woe is me”. Frankly i find your “astonishment” to be astonishing. We can all understand how an increase in commute time can no doubt suck. But I think A Grant, like myself can’t understand how being stuck in a car on the same route that the bus takes, is any sort of a solution. Unless of course you are Knight Rider and your Trans Am can jump over all of those buses. Maybe you’ve tried all other conceivable options, and determined that the car is obviously best, but from what you’ve written there is absolutely nothing at all that articulates how that mode will fix your problem, so don’t be astonished that to the outside world your solution doesn’t make a hole lot of sense.
WEB
at 12:21 pm
I’ll take a damn different route!!!!!!!!!! Holy Moses isn’t it obvious?????????????
A Grant
at 11:34 am
Unfortunately, what you fail to understand is the connection between: “getting people out of their cars” and “bike lanes”. The short of it is, in order to get people out of their cars, they need to have alternative choices. Safe and convenient choices. This includes walking, cycling and bus/subway/LRT. Which necessitates investments in sidewalks, bicycle lanes and public transit.
Listen, two things are certain when you live in the core of the city. 1) The population will increase; and 2) Additional roads to handle this increase in the number of commuters cannot be built. To deny this and continue on the road of car dominated urban environment will inevitably lead to the traffic gridlock you describe, with or without bike lanes.
Amelia Haynes
at 6:46 pm
The list of things WEBB should do ASAP for the love of God!
– eat a good meal
– get a massage, full body 1.5 hours. I know someone who’s amazing if you need a referral
– get a great night’s sleep
– laugh a little bit
– hug a loved one
When you’re finished your homework assignment, let me know.
ScottyP
at 2:31 am
Welcome to the world of TRB, WEB. Commenters here don’t suffer fools gladly.
Jason H
at 5:50 am
Hate to say it but didn’t you choose to live downtown?
It’s like people who live in Barrie and complain of to much traffic going to work in downtown TO.
WEB
at 8:50 am
Hmmm….yes I chose to live downtown.
So here goes Jason. I chose to live downtown. So this is what I did. I researched my work commute options before I bought a house. I found I could take this express bus and it would get me to work, front door to front door in about 50 minutes. I was happy with that. Now they are going to put these bike lanes in and as a result, my commute may rise to 1 hour and 30 minutes. So I am unhappy with that. The fact that you can’t understand that I would be unhappy with that is to me again, astonishing!
Let me pose this scenario to you: One particular day, you are robbed, you lose your job and your wife or girlfriend leaves you. And this happens all on the same day. Would you be unhappy with this day? You know, based on your comment to me, I’m not really sure! If you complained about it I might say to you: You CHOSE to live in a big city, so don’t complain if you get robbed. And hey, people lose their jobs all the time. So no big deal. And when CHOSE to enter into a relationship with someone, there is always the chance it could end.
When I see the responses to my post, I am even more worried that this city could be doomed. In the LONG-RUN, a city will only be successful if it has intelligent leadership. And it is the citizens of that city that choose the leaders. And look at these citizens……
jeff316
at 9:08 am
You bought a house based on a bus route and it never occurred to you that it might change in the future? I’m not sure if you’re serious or the english speaking version of that Choroshklfjhj guy
WEB
at 12:25 pm
Yes, I assumed that the city wouldn’t do something so idiotic. If they can do this, they can ruin ANYONE’s commute (except I guess if you walk to work.)
And I guess Jeff you are so perfect that you can always see the dangers the lie ahead right? Hmmm…
ScottyP
at 2:34 am
“Bike lanes adding 40 minutes to a 10km commute… dogs and cats, living together… mass hysteria!”
Chroscklh
at 11:35 am
Web is awesome! (I mean this guy not internets)…He buy house just 10km from work but take him 50 min? Does he take bus first to scarborough to get scone and then go work? Also he discuss nonsensical think about girlfriend and robbery and suggests he worry about city based on comments on a real estate blog? He alarmist. I question his assess of commute going to 1 hour 30 minute. He a paranoid. My friend, Adelaide and Richmond are mess because of construction right now. Other times (and non-rush hour) is fairly fast artery to get across city. My friend, may I make humble suggest? Take money u buy 50 ft lot, instead by better located house on Subway line. Commute = no make cry and real estate values protect. Just suggest but I am not paranoid, alarmist who fears robbery to imagine wife
Amelia Haynes
at 11:44 am
LOL @ take bus first to scarborough to get scone … gold.
WEB
at 12:25 pm
OK………………
ScottyP
at 2:37 am
Jeff316, Chroscklh is absolutely fantastic and we are blessed to have him here. (See his post above for further proof.)
I think you owe him an apology for misspelling his name on purpose.
Joe Q.
at 11:25 am
Chroscklh very funny guy, but need to ask Pat Sajak to buy extra vowels for name.
guest1
at 9:20 am
Everyone should have seen the cluster F coming at Union Station. The project is being handled by 3 different agencies, Metrolinx, TTC and the City all of which do not have a stellar record at completing construction projects on time. The comment about Union Station is for commuters so who cares if cars can’t drive shows the ignorance of some Toronto residents. The walking situtation Bay & Front and York and Front is insane, please try crossing at these intersections in the evening rush hour when there’s a Jays game.
Joe Q.
at 9:51 am
Not “who cares if cars can’t drive” but the passenger volumes travelling through Union Station are enormous and it has been badly in need of expansion for some time. I’m not sure what other option we have, other than postponing its expansion (or drawing it out). It is easier to find a route around Union Station on car / bike / foot than it is to find a route around it by train.
ScottyP
at 2:46 am
The problem is simple: The Union Station project is vastly over-budget and behind schedule.
I visit Osaka every 12 months or so on business, and the city undergoes — and completes — greater projects in scope within a year or two than the Union Station mess, which has been ongoing for four years (and counting).
We need a new bidding process, we need more transparency within the process, we need hard deadlines that will be posted and met, and we need strict penalties for deadlines and budgets that are not being met. But we won’t demand any of this, because we’re a city of wimps who will just take it and moan, take it and moan.
The Union Station project as it stands is a disgrace, just as the St. Clair LRT was a disgrace, and anyone who says otherwise is, with all due respect, completely delusional.
Joe Q.
at 9:32 am
I don’t know about the deadlines and budget for the Union overhaul so I will take your word for it, and more transparency and accountability is always good. But do these governance aspects alone (accountability for deadlines, transparent bidding, etc.) explain why Osaka is able to build infrastructure four times faster than we do?
ScottyP
at 6:51 pm
That’s a fair question.
This is anecdotal, but I get the strong sense that the Japanese apply maximum efficiency towards getting both public and private development projects done in as expedient a manner as possible — all while maintaining the highest standards of quality. In short, they get it done. On countless occasions I’ve seen two dozen construction workers hauling ass under the cover of midnight darkness, whether it be to fix a water main or to transform an entire city block. Fat chance of seeing that here, unless it’s for a purely private condominium build.
Umeda, Osaka’s “North Downtown”, has undergone a massive public-private-funded revitalization over the past decade or so. It’s happened in stages, and the results are striking. The complete transformation undergone by Osaka Station in just a few short years would trump three Union Stations… in fact, every time I see our precious little Union Station expansion, I can’t help but laugh at its sheer smallness in scope.
Now, Japan has its own problems: A continually stalled economy, the heavy involvement of the mafia in various key industries (such as construction), its fair share of make-work white elephants and pork-barrel projects, etc.
But they kick our ass when it comes to building things better, faster, and with minimal disruption. Though the financial transparency of such projects may be questionable — I don’t know enough about the specific subject to comment — there’s little doubt that, like their trains, Japanese construction projects tend to run right on schedule.
Meanwhile in Toronto, after four years of muddling and middling construction, all we have to show for the Union Station expansion is the following article from Robyn Doolittle. It’s beyond shameful — it’s downright embarrassing.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/massive-renovation-of-torontos-union-station-over-budget-behind-schedule/article18840369/
Patty
at 9:28 am
I live and work in Unionville. Not that far from downtown and we have awesome activities and festivals as well. We also loved to attend events downtown and shop several times a month at least. We have been downtown twice in 2014. We drove to the subway (not close) and commuted. It wasn’t any quicker. Just the thought of getting to the city anymore is too much. The festivals are wonderful but there really are too many. Those responsible for permitting these events need to start using some discretion. A lot of us ‘out here’ are keeping our dollars in out pockets. Transit is NOT viable yet and probably won’t be in my lifetime. If you want us to come down and spend then stop making it so difficult and unwelcoming.
Joe Q.
at 10:32 am
What is Toronto doing to make it “difficult” and “unwelcoming” to come from Unionville to downtown?
The issues you cited all have to do with traffic volumes and demand. Unionville is a great place, and is also close to being an “inner suburb”, but it is still 30+ km from downtown Toronto. The fact that there is a GO station there (40 mins to Union during weekday rush-hours) probably helps a lot. I’m sure the Stoufville line is to get “all-day, two-way” service at some point (like the Lakeshore line has now) but this will be expensive. Serving Markham with a subway is likely a non-starter as the low population density makes costs enormous. None of this really has to do with the actions of the city of Toronto.
jeff316
at 11:49 am
True, it’s not the fault of the City of Toronto, but I think we Torontonians have to realize that we’re not dealing with reality here, but instead are dealing with people’s expectations. And people who are used to easy access via car day-in day-out, regardless of what time of day, and whose expectations of Toronto driving are largely based on their experiences 20-30 years ago, are put off by the increasingly undriveable nature of the city.
I’m a product of the burbs, and sure it is anecdotal, but I can attest to every single one of my remaining suburban friends and family – even those that live in the inner burbs, even the teenagers! – say the exact same thing as Patty each time I see them, and almost never come into the city anymore. Some are even skipping family events because travel times are not meeting their expectations. It may be a bit ridiculous, and it may not be the capital-C city’s fault, but coming into Toronto is an increasingly unwelcoming experience.
What I think some surburbanites and non-Torontonians don’t understand is that there is a such a mass of people in Toronto (and people with decent money) that, to some extent, it doesn’t matter if the casual visitors are no longer willing to come into the city for many of these events. It is no-one’s loss.
Joe Q.
at 12:22 pm
This point (about expectations) is a good one. I now live in central TO but work in the burbs, and have had many burbs-dwelling co-workers proudly tell me that they never come into Toronto anymore.
In the end, whether coming into Toronto is “unwelcoming” or not may not matter at all. Improved transit will help a lot, but we won’t get back to 1980s-type driving convenience in the city core unless we send 100s of thousands of Torontonians back to their suburbs / towns / cities of origin and turn the condo towers back into the parking lots they once were.
jeff316
at 12:41 pm
Agreed, absolutely. A close relative, and an otherwise reasonable one at that, was biatching last week about how the drive from Burlington to Toronto, door to door, used to take 35-40 minutes when they moved here and now is pushing 1.5 hours in normal daytime sometimes.
Big whoop. That was 1991, and the population of the cities along the QEW have increased 30 percent since then, not to mention other places that contribute to Toronto traffic like Brampton, Milton, the northern burbs and the east side.
I think it is good, too, that suburbanites are finding that their communities offer rewarding experiences close to home, and that coming into Toronto isn’t a necessity. It is showing that those communities are maturing past being places to shop, sleep and poop.
Joe Q.
at 12:50 pm
The key point here IMO is that neither the City of Toronto nor its residents are “the reason” why your relative’s commute time has increased from 35-40 min to 1.5 hrs.
jeff316
at 1:03 pm
Well Toronto residents play a role of course, in using the streets and transit and making political decisions that may/may not impact car traffic, but yeah this idea that Toronto is not doing enough to cater to incoming suburbanites is old-time thinking, agreed.
Alex
at 3:31 pm
Actually, it might be a gain. Most events are so crowded you can barely move. For example, Taste of the Danforth. We really can’t fit anymore people at these things so we have no incentive to make it easier for people to come downtown to these events. Other suburbs should follow Unionville’s lead and have tons of summer festivals of their own, then everyone gets to go to festivals and nobody has to worry about how to get there.
ScottyP
at 2:49 am
Agreed.
Kyle
at 12:26 pm
^This
The divide between urban and suburban is getting deeper and deeper, both practically and psychologically. The reality is Toronto is changing rapidly, it’s population is growing at roughly 9% per year, and growth in the core is now outpacing growth in the suburbs. So when you have all that population growth trying to get around on the same infrastructure that has been around for decades, it WILL take longer to get around. Most people don’t consider this and the future impacts enough when they decide where to live. And once more long over-due infrastructure finally comes on stream (e.g. Eglinton cross-town, UP Rail link, York U extension), what will likely happen is the density around those modes will increase making the 905’s feel even further. The 50’s model of living in a big house in the suburbs and driving down a freeway to your downtown office is OVER, it’s time to adjust your perceptions.
jeff316
at 1:14 pm
Exactly. Re: the divide, I think a key point that some urbanites need to realize is that the suburban lifestyle of auld is still attractive to a lot of people. We can recognize this while respectfully admitting that the commuter-driver lifestyle is probably over. Perceptions don’t get changed over-night, and they definitely don’t get changed by accusatory discussions of “you’ve forgotten us, the city is an ungodly trap” vs. “get with the program, you suburbs are soul-sucking planet killers” (not saying you’re doing this but this is sometimes how these discussions seem to evolve.)
Heck, when I take my kid to visit my parents, my wife and I get dazzled by my childhood home, which despite being *very* modest for the burbs has double the living space and 2.5 times the lot width of my current Toronto home and is two minute’s walk from a park where my kid doesn’t have to fight for space on the slide. It is only natural.
I know I’m largely talking to myself here, but I’d live in the burbs in a hot second (I’d sell my next-born to have our employer move our jobs to Hamilton) but with two incomes downtown I just don’t think it is sustainable emotionally and financially for me, the kid, the family. I think the latter point is key to these discussion (although it is anecdotal to me, obviously.)
jeff316
at 1:15 pm
I should add, the commuter-drive lifestyle is on the wane in Toronto proper, not the rest of the province.
Alex
at 1:59 pm
I think you hit the nail on the head when you say we endure the long winter so that when summer comes we just want to party outside the whole time. Add to that the fact that the vast majority of construction and road work will be done in the summer and you get a ton of road closures. We should be pretty stoked that we’re finally investing in our infrastructure, eh? How long has the gardiner been crumbling? How long has union been a nightmare? It’s about time they fixed and improved those two.
If we didn’t have all these festivals and events our city would be a pretty boring place to live. I don’t drive though, so I don’t get affected by road closures. I would highly recommend not driving on weekends, especially if it’s nice outside. I love just walking through the city, and if I get tired I just hop on a bus or the subway. I can think of two friends I know that live in the city and own cars, so don’t worry about my generation causing more traffic. Our population may be growing, but I doubt our car ownership is keeping pace. I also hope that people that can work from home do that more often, as it frees up road space as well.
Also, your recommendation of mushing all the events together reminded me of Futurama’s solution: Parade Day! Where every parade happens all at once on one day. It would be epic. Caribana and Pride practically wear the same costumes anyway.
Amelia Haynes
at 6:29 pm
Finally someone says it: Parade day from futurama. I thought I was the only one. 😉
Geoff
at 4:39 pm
You know I don’t mind the chaos caused by events like tastes of danforth etc. Other cities manage it. Look at chicago – one weekend it’s lollapolloza, one weekend it’s taste of chicago, one weekend it’s something else. It’s awesome when you look at it from a high level.
What I do mind is stuff we can control – like if ttc maintenance is optional, maybe not do the weekend one of these big events is on (hey, didn’t we just build a $3M centre for manage just this sort of thing?).
Also what bugs me is when roads are closed but nobody is working on them. This includes weekends and holidays. Projects should be worked on 24/7 (safety permitting) if roads are closed.
bo
at 8:49 am
ts not awesome, its utter bullshit.
I’m gonna drive my bigass Mercedes v8 over every goddam cyclist I see this weekend.
Fuck you all, liberal, pinko car haters!
Chroscklh
at 1:23 pm
Bo is very funny. he hate liberals but I doubt he have Mercedes – V8 or otherwise. He probably has bigass though, from lack of walking
Waqas Ali
at 1:31 am
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ScottyP
at 4:28 pm
^ Delete this please, David.
spam
at 11:58 pm
the best response we can have would be if each reader would provide “fake” contact info…it would waste a lot of waqas’ time…
ScottyP
at 9:05 am
I like it.
Stella
at 11:02 am
Roads are for cars. Parks are for pedestrians, festivals and events. Toronto is a poorly planned and managed city. City of Totonto is a joke that wastes tax payers money like No one has ever seen. Shame and disgust. These festivals and events that envolve massive road closures are a useless attempt to gain some character. There’s none to be proud of. Messy melting pot of lame quality and entertaining value things. There are better places to live worldwide.