Here’s a little-known fact about myself.
Did you know that I once worked for Celestica?
My God, do I feel old right now. That was almost twenty years ago, and every time I drive past the Eglinton & Don Mills site, I get chills.
Between my 3rd and 4th years of University, I did a 16-month internship at Celestica, working as Procurement Cost Engineer. My job was to price every individual part or piece that made up a given electronic, or circuit-board, etc. Considering I was a business student, and not an engineering student, this wasn’t easy. I had absolutely no idea what I was doing at first, and if you ask those I worked with (many of whom still work there, after a quick, and somewhat scarring LinkedIn search just now), they might suggest that I had absolutely no idea what I was doing by the end either.
I was not a good intern. Twenty years later, I think I can say that. But I once said that at a family function when I was still working there, and my uncle, who believed that every young man in business should get a job with a company and work his way up the ladder, didn’t approve. I think he was embarrassed, and confused as to why somebody would “brag” about being a bad intern.
What can I say?
I hated the work. It was the most cliché, hum-drum version of every office on the planet.
Remember the movie Office Space? Honestly, folks, the parallels between working at Celestica in 2001, and working at “Initech” in the 1999 movie were downright scary. Although I was years away from drinking my first cup of coffee, I got a coffee mug, which I used as a prop, and walked around the office like Bill Lumbergh, leaning on cubicle walls, and telling people they had to come in on the weekend:
That’s how I spent a lot of my time, but I couldn’t help myself. I was like a fish out of water in that environment, considering I’ve been self-employed ever since.
The month-end team lunches at Jack Astor’s (we rotated restaurants and covered every Casey’s, Kelsey’s, TGI Friday’s, Applebee’s, and/or Chili’s in the city), the weekly team-meetings with bagels and cream cheese, the team-bonding experiences in the woods; my God, it was all so cliché.
I apologize if I’m describing your life, or your work, or if you feel differently. It’s a solid life for some people, but not everybody. And through the process, I learned that I didn’t want to partake.
Each and every morning I would get on the elevator, and you could tell what day it was by the people’s faces, and attitudes.
Monday was all about, “I can’t believe we’re back here. Where did the weekend go? It was just Friday, and I was just in this very elevator, coming down, about to head home!”
Tuesday as a bit less drab.
Wednesday offered hope, and promise, and that God-awful catch-phrase, “Hump-day.” Everybody would celebrate that we’re “halfway there!”
Thursday was all smiles. People just knew we were one day from heaven.
And then came Friday. Friday, you could do no wrong. Step on somebody’s foot in the elevator, spill their coffee, sneeze in their face, forget to push the button for their floor, no worries. “It’s Friday! I can’t believe it! Here comes the weekend!”
I fell into that trap too, however. As a 21-year-old intern working a 9-5 grind, I was a true Weekend Warrior myself.
Monday to Friday, I would price out capacitors and transistors at $0.03 per unit, when I wasn’t busy wasting at least 30% of company time by doing anything other than working. I think that’s fairly common in that environment, if we’re going to be open and honest about life.
But from 5pm-9am, I was alive. And on Saturday & Sunday, I was invigorated.
The one difference between me and everybody I worked with was that when I left work, I drove about ten minutes to my parents’ house (yes, you can call me spoiled). When they left, they drove up to the DVP, and then the 401, and then to Pickering, Ajax, Whitby, or Oshawa. The more well-off folks drove to Markham, but those days became numbered shortly thereafter.
I recall the conversations being had on the other side of cubicle walls every day.
“We looked at a house off Bayview, but for $350,000, it doesn’t make sense. We’re looking at a place this weekend off Thickson for $220,000.”
Every day, or so it seemed.
It was talked about so often that this was basically my very first foray into the world of real estate! And what the heck did I know? $220,000 sounded a lot cheaper than $350,000!
But then came the morning, and evening discussions about the commute.
Every morning, a fresh-faced, wide-eyed member of the PCE group would come in and announce with a smile, “Fifty-eight minutes, not bad!” in response to a generous and easy morning commute.
Every evening, members of my department would weigh the pros and cons of leaving at a certain time, and/or coming in earlier the next morning, all in the hopes of “catching a break” and minimizing the commute. “I could leave at 6, probably do it in 1:15 – 1:20, or stay till 8, push through in 50-55, maybe come in a bit earlier tomorrow, shave off another ten, maybe make that back up on Thursday….”
It was incessant.
But it was also highly necessary.
Knowing nothing about real estate at the time, and having the extreme benefit of hindsight, I won’t comment on the decision to purchase a house in Ajax for $220,000 rather than a house in Davisville Village for $350,000, in 2001. I will say, however, that the commute into Toronto each and every morning for tens of thousands of people is nothing new.
My experience was in 2001. But in 2018, I’ve read several articles about “commuting life,” in multiple publications.
June 21st, 2018, Toronto Sun: “Why Commuting In Toronto Is In Chaos”
This is an editorial, so call it biased, but the author gives two cents worth of causation:
The never-ending congestion and gridlock happened because of five decades of terrible planning decisions, starting with former premier Bill Davis killing the Spadina Expressway in 1971.
That turned the Don Valley Parkway into a parking lot every rush hour, because it has to do double duty as the city’s only north-south link for vehicular traffic.
The Spadina Expressway was supposed to be the second one.
Having built a world-class subway system by the 1960s, we foolishly stopped building subways in the 1970s.
Fifty years later, we still haven’t built the one subway Toronto desperately needs — a downtown relief line.
The same urban elites who stopped the Spadina Expressway then went on another disastrous campaign to “Save Our Streetcars.”
As a result, we still have these uni-directional steel tanks clogging major traffic arteries in the city core, when they should have been replaced by buses and consigned to secondary routes as tourist attractions decades ago.
Now this article, and a host of others like it, were written in response to a report on commuting penned by a U.K.-based business solution company called Expert Market, which you can read in full HERE if you have time.
Do you know where Toronto ranked among North American cities when it comes to commuting?
You guessed it: DEAD LAST.
In first place was the city of Nice, France, where city workers spend an average of 1.25% of their monthly salary for a travel card, where the average commute is 40 minutes per day, and where road users only spend 22 hours stuck in traffic jams over the course of a year.
Toronto, last in North America, saw city workers spend an average of 6.5% of their monthly salary on a travel card, with an average commute each day of 96 minutes, and where road users spend 47 hours stuck in traffic jams per year. That last number is actually not quite bad!
If you click on that link, you can download the full list of cities (74 in total) in Excel, and sort by the categories. I played around with this tool for quite some time!
While Toronto ranked last in North America, they were “only” 69th overall of the 74 cities.
However, Toronto ranked second-to-dead-last in what I deem to be the most important of the categories offered: average daily commute. This is a whopping 96 minutes, and dead-last is 97.
So fast-forward to two weeks ago, and this appeared in the news:
November 13th, 2018, CBC News: “CMHC Finds Toronto Commuting Costs Can Outweight Cheaper Suburban House Prices”
The article is a solid read; I encourage you to click the link (especially if you’re going to put the next article in context as well).
The story provided, among others, this important graphic:
The article argues, and I would say “argue” because there are assumptions and conclusions, (and the next article I show you will suggest that the conclusion of this article is false), that within the GTA, the added cost of a long commute often outweighs the savings from cheaper housing in the suburbs.
“Homeowners attracted by the affordability of a house with a plot of land in a bedroom city can save money by commuting by public transit, the study found, but then the trade-off is the cost of your time as transit commuting takes longer than driving.”
The article references some commutes that cost up to $800 per month.
But the problem I have with this article is the following:
“One of the things that makes commuting costs lower in Toronto is that residents have ready access to rapid transit,” Scott said.
Rapid transit?
If you mean the subway, sure. But there is absolutely nothing rapid about a streetcar, or bus.
Look around the world, especially in progressive countries and/or those with top-notch transit systems, and you’ll quickly learn the meaning of the word “rapid.”
So now, one final article:
November 22nd, 2018, Financial Post: “Don’t Let The Cost Of Commuting From The Suburbs Fool You: It’s Still Cheaper To Live There”
This was written by “Haider & Moranis;” Murtaza Haider & Stephen Moranis, who put out some great articles every week, and who usually look at issues far more in depth than any other columnist or journalist.
As you would assume, they took issue with the conclusions drawn from, and articles written about, the CMHC report:
First and foremost is the fact that dwelling units differ in sizes. According to the 2016 Census, the average number of rooms in a dwelling in the City of Toronto was five. In the neighbouring suburb of Vaughan, the average number of rooms was 7.2.
Not only is the size of low-rise housing itself larger in the suburbs, but the lot sizes tend to be much larger, too, because of the lower land prices.
It is only by ignoring the huge difference in dwelling sizes that the mortgage carrying costs of smaller-size detached units in the City of Toronto can be equated to their much larger counterparts in the suburbs.
Suburbs have larger homes because they shelter larger families. The average household size is 33 per cent larger in Markham and 25 per cent higher in Mississauga than the average household size in the City of Toronto.
The smaller-size households, i.e. singles and couples without children need much less space than larger-size families and therefore, on a per-square-foot basis, smaller households outbid larger-size households for housing in the urban core.
Another unstated assumption in the CMHC study is about the false choice between the suburbs and the central city for larger-size households. The urban core offers fewer affordable choices for larger families. Even if the commuting costs were higher, which we will show is not necessarily the case, large families do not have a real choice between the suburbs and the core.
The CMHC study also bases its commuting costs on median distances. This favours the urban areas for two reasons. First, for the 12 per cent who walk or bike to work, the study assumes zero commuting costs. Second, since the study estimates costs based on distance and not time, it underestimates the duration of short-distance commutes in the congested urban core. Thus, the monthly commuting cost for the City of Toronto is estimated at a mere $115, even less than the cost of a monthly transit pass. In comparison, workers living in Georgina, 80 kilometres north of the city, are estimated to incur a cost of $1,079 for driving to work.
Their conclusion:
After stripping away the assumptions, the locational advantage of suburbs is obvious: cheaper housing with sufficient shelter space for families and commutes comparable to those of central city dwellers. No wonder most of the population growth in Canada’s metropolitan areas was realized in the suburbs between 2006 and 2016.
–
I realize that I’m doing what so many people in our society today are guilty of: complaining, and not offering any solutions.
But it’s just so fashionable, right?
With the way our city is growing, it’s impossible for many people to even fathom living in the core, and a generation from now, the idea will be even more far-fetched.
Not to beat a dead horse, but building transit 24/7, 365 for the next 100 years would be a good start.
My question, at least here in 2018 remains: can you handle the Toronto commute?
I’d love to hear from any of you who have moved out of the city, why, and how you feel about the decision. And if any of you are pondering the move, I’d love to hear from you as well.
Francesca
at 7:39 am
I had always lived in the city both as a kid and as an adult. My dad was a banker working at head offices downtown so wherever we moved it always made sense to live centrally so my dad could walk to work ( this was the case in Milan and Montreal) or take the subway to work (Toronto). When I was in my 20s my first real job was at Harlequin at york mills and Leslie, less than a five minute drive from my parents. There were colleagues of mine commuting from Guelph every day and I have no idea how they did it! Then when I got married we moved into a condo and then a townhouse in north york right next to the subway so both myself and my husband could commute easily to work. I was at AOL then at Yonge and at Clair and my husband at bay and Dundas. I got laid off while pregnant and then decided to stay home with my daughter full time. By then my husband who works in construction was mostly doing work in the burbs so we decided to leave Toronto. We moved to Markham in 2009 and bought our 2800 sq foot house for $469,000, 100 k more than what we sold our tiny town in North York for. We have been in this house ever since. I don’t work still so no commute for me and my husbands past jobs have included a community centre walking distance from our house and two jobs in Vaughan close to the new subway line. For him it’s a 20 min door to door drive but on the 407 which isn’t cheap. He is able to expense half of it and I never use it to save money. Most of my friends and neighbours all lived in Toronto at one point but moved here for the cost of housing or because they grew up here and family was close by to help raise the kids. In all honesty I can’t think of anyone I know here that commutes more than 30 min by car. If they work downtown they take the go train. Some houses are close enough to the go train that you can walk there and therefore only need one car. We have paid off our mortgage but between our two car leases, 407 bill and car insurance we are paying more than what our montly mortgage was. In all honesty if my husbands job wasn’t so transient every couple of years and was in the city along transit we would have stayed in Toronto and spent more money buying a more expensive house as our car needs and expenses would be lower. I think it really depends on each individual family’s situation but I don’t think it’s worth moving to an area so far away from ones job to spend so much time in traffic every day. I’m sure the stress of commuting isn’t good for either your physical or mental health. If given the choice between two jobs I would always choose whatever is closer to home.
john snub
at 4:13 pm
Could you write a longer paragraph please.
AN1989
at 7:32 am
I work for one of the big banks right downtown, 90% of the people I work with have an average travel commute of 1-3 hours daily. You are honestly just from a different demographic that does not make up the majority age group of the working class currently.
A Grant
at 9:01 am
First, with respect to the Sun editorial, it’s a bit disingenuous to single out the cancellation of the Spadina Expressway as the main cause of the Toronto’s current congestion woes. The reality is that five new expressways were planned – the Spadina, the Crosstown, the Scarborough, the Hamilton and the 400 Extension/Christie-Clinton – which would have effectively carved up metro Toronto into isolated pockets, demolished thousands of homes, and turned a number of the city’s most beautiful and sought-after neighbourhoods into ghettos, making the city virtually unliveable.
You can’t argue that this plan would have remade Toronto for the better (and speaking of the editorial, can we stop with the whole “urban elites” slur? I am genuinely curious as to whether Toronto Star editorials uses similar verbiage to describe those who live in the suburbs.)
While I have some sympathy for those who must endure long commutes by car, but – to use another right-wing talking point – what about some “personal responsibility” here? I mean, by choosing to live well outside the city, you are effectively accepting a Faustian bargain to give up a quicker, easier and cheaper commute in favour of living in your preferred housing-type. My compassion ends when folks turnaround and expect taxpayers to subsidize their poor life choices by bankrolling the widening of freeways, to the detriment of those who live in the city.
That said, I agree completely with David’s point. We must begin building transit 24/7, 365 days a year, for 100 years. They should have started 20 years ago.
June
at 9:08 am
Our story is the complete opposite of Francesca’s. We moved from Calgary to Toronto in 2002 and bought a townhouse in Unionville which offered incredible value but also a really family community. My husband and I both worked downtown in banking and we drove together every morning. While it was great couples bonding every morning for 45 minutes it was tougher getting home in traffic every night. North on the 404 at 6pm is an absolute nightmare! Not to mention we had to plan our exits from work every night so we could carpool. Eventually my hudbad’s job kept him at work longer and I would end up killing time for two hour every night waiting for him. Once we had our first child and I was at home north of the city he kinda grew accustomed to running his own schedule every morning and night. When it was time for me to go back to work he was working really long hours and suggested we get a second car which we did. But the cost of that car plus support for our little one plus all the hours spent commuting just made the situation untenable. We started looking for a home closer to the city in 2007 and ended up in midtown. We take a short bus to Davisville every morning and subway down. He drives some days too but for the most part our commute is a third of what it once was. Granted we bought our house ten years ago and maybe the same options are impossible for today’s buyers but we are so glad we acted when we did!!
Condodweller
at 9:26 am
I always believed in living as close as possible to work to reduce commute times. One consideration which is often missed when contemplating the pros and cons of living in the core vs suburbs is that mortgages get paid off, eventually, hopefully.
Living in the core used to be a stigma. I liked to be sitting on my couch after a 20 minute walk from work when most of my colleagues were still sitting on their respective trains. I used to be jealous of those who lived in a condo and worked on the PATH who didn’t have to put on a jacket in January to walk to work in 5-10 minutes.
AT555
at 9:53 am
Lived and worked in the core for 5 years, walked and biked everywhere even after one kid. But with second one coming along we needed more space so moved to W08 due to many reasons such as 15 minute go train ride to Union, cheaper than most of the West-end, close to the lake. It took us some time to adjust to live outside the core but you soon get used to your personal walk-in closet and basement gym 🙂
Jackie
at 12:00 pm
The answer to can you handle the Toronto Commute is, depends where you work AND depends on mode of transportation.
In downtown Toronto, people experiencing commutes greater than 60 minutes, can reach up to 10% depending on neighbourhood, for example Liberty Village. In Cooksville Mississauga 16%.
Now, is that 60 minutes in a car, TTC streetcar, TTC bus, TTC subway or GO Train. Those are all very different 60 minute commuting experiences.
Greg
at 12:40 pm
Dude, my wife and I moved from the ‘Burbs back into the city because the commute was slowly (punn intended) killing us. Left the “mansion” with dusty bonus rooms for a semi in midtown. Best decision we ever made.
Once you factor in $300/mo gas, $130/mo in subway, and the $240 train/mo….you quickly realize that additional cash will go a long way spread over a 25yr mortgage.
The new 15 minute bicycle commute is a nice value add also.
BillyO
at 7:14 pm
Exactly. All my 905er friends and family ask why I live in ‘expensive Toronto’ (both wife and I walk to work) whereas many of them pay $700-$1000 per month gas/insurance/TTC/GO. And let’s not get started on property taxes in the 905!
Sarah
at 1:30 pm
Burlington –> Toronto Airport Commute
Used to take me 1hour (minimum) to 1:20 (maximum) on average to commute to work in the morning, daily. This is assuming no bad accidents, unforeseen weather delays, road closures, etc. The longest I ever sat in gridlock was close to 3 hours on my drive in … AND then I had to answer to management as to ‘why I didn’t plan accordingly so I would arrive on time…’
To drive home YYZ –> Burlington was approximately 1.5 hours routinely. Again, assuming no major delays.
I now have a new job in Burlington, and I don’t think I will EVER agree to a major commute again. The 3 hours a day I have gained to do other things – like have dinner with friends, read a book, go to the gym, etc is so valuable to my happiness & health. Would not want it any other way.
XYZABC
at 1:50 pm
Well, here is a true story.
Back in early 2010 this was the exact question in front of us. Commute, detached, and bigger vs. more expensive and semi.
As both of us work in Toronto, close to DT but not at Union, the commute for us was either car or a long GO/Subway.
Couldnt possibly come to grips with such a horrendous commute.
So, small semi close to work (<5km) was what we ended up going with. During summer i ride by motorcycle and the street parking is free, commute about 20m door to door. During winter/wet weather i suck it up and dish out $6 and do the subway (about 30 minutes most days).
I think we are much more happier with this then we would have been with living in the burbs.
The family size is now three (or 4 if you count the dog) instead of two back in 2010, and no more additions will be made. But all in all I think we made the right decision for our lives. Sure, a bigger house would have been nicer, but we have been able to make the smaller house (1350 sq ft plus another 650 in the finished basement) work for our family size.
Condodweller
at 2:01 pm
“but we have been able to make the smaller house (1350 sq ft plus another 650 in the finished basement) work for our family size.”
This always makes me smile when you consider in many places around the world people would consider half of that space a luxury. Then we have people who “need” 3000sqft+
A Grant
at 2:12 pm
Exactly. I know I’ve mentioned it before, but I live in a neighbourhood comprised almost solely of Veterans homes. The “greatest” generation could raise large families in 1.5 story bungalows with no more than 800 square feet.
XYZABC
at 2:54 pm
Agreed, we would like a little more space for calling more people over for social occasions – esp in winter. In summer its not a problem as the backyard is 100 ft. long :-).
Other than that one we manage fine in the space we have as we have three beds and two baths (one in the basement though). With a 5 year old with a naughty dog you cant both be in the washroom at the same time in any case :-).
Condodweller
at 3:18 pm
It’s about what you do with what you have. I remember going to a Christmas party once at a friend’s 1 bed condo and it was standing room only. They must have had a hundred people there. We all got along just fine and it was one of the more enjoyable parties I’d been to.
Batalha
at 9:13 pm
I grew up in the 1960’s in a three-bedroom bungalow in the Montreal suburbs with, believe it or not, one bathroom (until my father built a “powder room” in the otherwise unfinished basement). Oh, did I mention that we were a family of seven?
Ron
at 4:24 pm
Option 3: leave Toronto for another Canadian City.
Option 4: move to a US City.
If you have to commute over an hour then you can’t afford Toronto. Basically, you want Toronto more than Toronto wants you.
Julia
at 5:47 pm
An additional complication is that the commute conundrum is different for couples than for singles. We live at Avenue & Eglinton and my husband commutes (by car) to Front and Simcoe whereas I commute (also by car) to Richmond Hill. While distance wise, my workplace is much further than that of my husband’s, it often takes us around the same amount of time to get to and from work – we are lucky that we both have a fairly flex schedules and dont have to punch the clock at 9am and i am often able to leave before the 404 insanity begins… We have often discussed moving elsewhere in the GTA where we could afford a much larger house (Oakville or Burlington) but given where we work the commute would be even worse than what we are dealing with right now… In addition, we really like the schools in our area and we love having the convenience of Yonge and Eg within walking distance. So while a big suburban house with a pool and a walk in closet is tempting, I think we will stay put in North Toronto….
jeff316
at 10:26 pm
Every time we considered moving out to be closer to the family, in the suburbs, we looked at the nearly 300$ per month GO fare, plus a little extra for TTC (now eliminated?). Multiply that by two and that was just like firing money out of a t shirt gun.
And then there’s picking up the kids on time (while being nearly an hour by train away) and potentially getting stuck on the GO when it is delayed.
Max
at 7:55 pm
I live a short walk from the go train station and generally enjoy taking the go train over the subway as it is above surface and I can use my data. Even though it costs more, it still beats driving and it’s a relaxing trip for me. Taking the subway in the downtown core has its drama with unexpected delays any time any day. I’m 45 min door to door to union station every 30 minutes, with enough retail in my area in the burbs to do 90% of my required errands, it is still fairly convenient for me without ever driving much.
Joel
at 8:31 pm
I live in the beaches and work mid town. Even living within the city I still often have a 45-60 minute commute to work. I much prefer the city for quality of life, but the commute within the city unless you are going to 2 points on the subway line is still very slow and inefficient.
Chris
at 8:57 pm
I find it a little bit unfair that they calculate the full cost of car ownership against the cost of the commuting from the 905 while making the assumption that people who live in Toronto are all taking the ttc work and do not own a car. The reality is that a lot of people in Toronto still have a car that comes with payments and insurance, even if they don’t use it to go to work. If you live in Toronto and don’t own a car, I’m sure you spend quite a bit on Uber and short-term car rentals which is something people in the 905 do not spend money on.
A Grant
at 6:21 am
You’d be surprised. According to the Transportation Tomorrow Survey, released in 2018 based on 2016 data, 28 per cent of households in Toronto do not have a vehicle. In downtown wards, as many as 55 per cent of households don’t own a vehicle.
And I’m sure most suburban households who do own a car own more than one. I don’t think you can say the same about those who live in the core.
Chris
at 11:08 am
So according to this survey 72 percent of households own a car. Of the the 28 percent that do not own a car I think it is fair to assume a majority simply cannot afford it, but otherwise would like to own a car.
My main point was that the total cost of vehicle ownership has benefits outside of comutting to work for people outside of Toronto. Whereas people commuting within Toronto, 72 percent, are still paying for a good chunk of car ownership anyways.
A fairer comparison would be to look at the marginal added cost of driving downtown and paying for parking, or driving to a subway/GO station and paying for the train versus getting around Toronto via metropass.
A Grant
at 1:01 pm
I was trying to bring some further context to your belief that “the assumption that people who live in Toronto are all taking the ttc work and do not own a car” is incorrect. Based on the survey, far fewer households in the downtown 416 (i.e. Toronto proper) actually own a car then one would assume.
And honestly, I find the fact that almost 30% of households in the 416 and 905 do not own a car simply astounding. It demonstrates that a significant amount of the population is likely entirely dependent on a public transportation system that often fails to meet their needs.
Chris
at 5:55 pm
I’m not surprised that not a lot of people in “old Toronto” own a car, but old Toronto is only about 25% of the population.
The young professional living in a condo at Yonge and Bloor wihout a car is not representative of the 2.7 million people who live in the city of Toronto.
There are lots of people who live in Toronto (Etobicoke, North York, Scarborough) that commute by car or take the ttc and still own a car.
I personally used to live in North York and would drive to the subway every day. Moving outside the city of Toronto at that point in time would not have added significant costs to my commute.
From the perspective of someone who has a real budget and needs to make the real decision about whether to spend 1 million dollars on a detached house in Mississauga, they cannot reasonably compare a detached house in old Toronto whereas a detached house in Etobicoke is within reach. If people are trying to decide between a 2-3 bed condo and a large detached house in the 905 then that’s another matter.
jeff316
at 10:34 pm
“Of the the 28 percent that do not own a car I think it is fair to assume a majority simply cannot afford it, but otherwise would like to own a car.”
Why is it fair to assume that?
D3
at 11:04 am
Yes, my family is one of those downtown ones that don’t own a car. Neither I nor my spouse have jobs that require driving all over town. Usually just a fixed commute which is bikeable or walkable. Kids school and lessons and groceries are also all bikeable or walkable. We do rent to get out of town on weekends. On average, would spend about $1800/year on car rentals (which includes a longer trip in summer and Christmas). We never have to pay for car loans, car repairs, or maintain insurance. Cheaper than owning a car, and it means we’re always driving something that’s < 1 year old.
Joshua
at 6:45 pm
I often wonder about selling my car. I live in Ottawa (well technically across the river in Hull) and work downtown.
My commute is 5km each way and I walk both ways. It’s just as fast as taking transit or driving due to traffic congestion going across the bridges to Quebec.
I have a three year old Corolla which I drive once a week if that. I could do just fine without a car. Plus I would save about $5k/year on car payments, insurance, and gas
Bone_Daddy
at 9:56 am
Discussing our daily commute is good in all but I’m starting to think the true nugget in this post is piecing together what force of destiny led David out a typical corporate existence into the crucible of entrepreneurship and ultimately mucho success.
That line about being “reinvigorated” from 5 – 9 and on weekends really got to me – I’m sure everybody feels like that a certain way. The difference is The Flem loved that feeling so much more… that he realized he needed it all the time! He couldn’t just “fake it, till he made it”.
Good for you man, I’m thinking that some of your Celistica buds thought you were crazy when they heard you became a … realtor – gasp! But then look what a couple of years a person working at full creativity and ambition can accomplish – Arguably Toronto’s best RE agent and not some regretful middle manager waking up at 6am to get a leg up on the commute… ps – not my life… but it could be real soon 😀
Geoff
at 11:31 am
When my wife and I were looking to move from our one bedroom loft with the impending birth of a child, my father in law (good guy) said that we’d get more value out in Pickering/Ajax/Oshawa than we would in Toronto (where we ended up buying). When I asked him to define value, he looked at me like I was stupid, as obviously it meant size of house/land. I said there’s value in a shorter commute and being able to walk to places as well. Value is in the eye of the beholder, really.
steve
at 8:55 pm
Perhaps improved internet speeds will permit many future employees to work off site. In the meantime, commutes within the city are not much better than distant ones. The traffic is intolerable.
AN1989
at 7:31 am
I work for one of the big banks right downtown, 90% of the people I work with have an average travel commute of 1-3 hours daily. You are honestly just from a different demographic that does not make up the majority age group of the working class currently.
jeff316
at 10:32 pm
“If we strip away the assumptions…” only to replace them with assumption of similar or more specious credibility? That’s a weak retort Moranis et al. The bit about comparing Oshawa commutes to inner-city Toronto commutes is ridiculous and goes against the whole point of the original article.
D3
at 11:16 am
The thing I wonder about is whether it’s a fallacy to compare current cost vs commute time, and assume both will be the same forever. My dad talks about how, when they bought in 1970, they were deciding between a house in the Annex vs Scarborough. Annex was $40k more (I can’t remember relative to what base price). Scarborough was 20 minute commute downtown by car. They chose Scarborough. If the commute had stayed the same 20 minutes, then it would have been a great trade-off. But thousands of others did the same calc, moved to Scarborough, and commute times ballooned.
I’m sure there’s an argument along the line of Adam Smith’s “invisible hand” that describes this: something that looks like a bargain will quickly cease to become one as everyone else rushes in to take advantage of the same bargain.
Kent
at 1:02 pm
The wife and I are both debating this as well. We’re in the east end E03, and while we have a ‘cozy’ little detached home, we’re in a catchment/boundary of schools that are under the median (Fraser and EQAO).
It’s one thing if you’re already living in Rosedale or one of the other expensive Toronto areas with great schools, it’s another (at least for us) when you’re not in the top one or two deciles of Toronto’s schools. Debating on moving out of Toronto and to Oakville/West Mississauga.
Geoff
at 9:53 am
My wife and I were in the exact same spot. our solution is not for everyone – we went the private school route as moving would have been more expensive once I did the math (including double LTT or commuting costs). If we had more than one child, that might have made it a much more difficult choice.
XYZABC
at 9:24 am
I think we might end up having to do the same…..
carhws
at 7:18 am
Given the cosmopolitan, modern, forward thinking impression I have of Toronto I’m surprised there aren’t more options to work remotely or have the option to work remotely. Maybe no one is talking about it, but it seems logical (to me) that would be a bery “green” way to go while also cutting down on the stress (including time, money, quality of life) of a 5 day a week commute.
Barbara Millings
at 4:16 pm
Thank you for another fantastic contribution to the discussion!