I got to talking with an old friend on Saturday night, and he told me that he had recently moved out of his (ex) girlfriend’s place and into what he called “the supreme bachelor pad.”
He told me that living in his new digs is an absolute dream. He described it as “an upscale student ghetto.”
That place? 4K Spadina Avenue…
I have leased three units at 4K Spadina Avenue to my clients in the past year, and it never occurred to me until the other night that all three of them were between 23-26 years old.
My friend Will came by my condo on Saturday night to watch Georges St. Pierre dominate the Octagon at UFC 100, and he updated me on his living situation.
Will has moved out of his girlfriend’s place, which is probably a good thing since they broke up…
He said he would be looking to purchase a condo in November or December, but for now, he was content renting until he gets accustomed to the single life which is a stark contrast to what had grown used to in the past three years.
When Will told me that he ended up renting at 4K Spadina Ave, I kinda chuckled.
The building is probably 70% renters, as I would estimate that half of it is owned by foreign investors. The units are readily available for lease, and there is rampant turnover.
“Neo,” as the building is known, is a modest 15-storey, 333-unit building which is somewhat tame by CityPlace standards.
The sister building, “Montage” at 25 Telegram Mews, is 46-stories and 532 units. The two buildings share a lobby, security, and some amenities as they are essentially towers 1 & 2 of the same complex.
Will told me that he was happy living at Neo, but I was absolutely shocked to hear him say that he wanted to BUY the unit he was currently renting. I asked him, “Buddy – don’t you read my blog?”
He said, “no,” but added “I’ve been meaning to check it out one of these days.”
Ouch…
My opinions on CityPlace have been well documented throughout this blog, and as the cranes multiply in the area just west of Neo & Montage, it should become rather apparent that as many as a dozen new condominiums are on the way!
ALL of the land in between Bathurst & Spadina is slated for condominium developments in what will, in my opinion, become the single worst area of the city to own a condo.
The concept of “scarcity” clearly never entered the minds of anybody who purchased at Montage.
These ideals were not lost on my friend Will, however he told me that despite the saturation of the area, he enjoyed the “lifestyle” that Neo & Montage had to offer.
I asked him to elaborate a little more and he said point blank: “Dude, that building is a f*cking party, 24/7.”
Okaaaay…
Will is 29 years old, and perhaps just coming out of a relationship has something to do with this. But why would anybody want to live in a building that is a 24/7 party?
Will told me that 4K Spadina Avenue is essentially an older more mature version of living in residence in university. And you know what? I could totally see that being true.
According to Will, he hasn’t seen a single person in the building over the age of thirty, and he’s been living there for three weeks now.
He added that every time he gets off the elevator, passes through the lobby, or walks down the hall, he gets whiplash from…well….noticing members of the female persuasion…
On Saturday night before Will left to travel to my condo, he said that the four guys on the elevator were “absolutely trashed.” Not only that, he saw two other guys wheeling a keg of beer on a dolly through the front lobby and into the elevator to take up to their unit!
Apparently the cabs line up outside the building on Friday and Saturday nights between 8 – 11PM because they know that all the young people are heading out for a night on the town.
And at two o’clock in the morning, there is a revolving door of drunk people stumbling home from a night of partying, with the only difference between this and university being the lack of a calculus mid-term to write the next day.
Will seemed to like this environment, while it doesn’t appeal to me at all. Maybe I’m an old fuddy-duddy, but university was university, and today is today.
You won’t find many families living at 4K Spadina Avenue, and I would hazard a guess that there are even fewer retirees.
So what does this mean for the resale potential of these units?
If Will wants to buy a unit there because he likes the lifestyle, then clearly there is a segment of the buyer pool and/or general public who would seek out such a “party building.”
250 & 270 Wellington Street, aka “The Icon” is a very young complex, as is 21 & 25 Carlton Street, aka “The Met.” Both of these complexes have terrific resale value and units here have experienced higher-than-average appreciation in the last two years.
But what is the difference between The Icon and The Met versus that of Neo at 4K Spadina Avenue?
You guessed it! Neo is still in CityPlace, and Cityplace is a virus that spreads with no cure in sight.
The “new” CityPlace on the west side of Spadina makes the “old” CityPlace (think Navy Wharf, Mariner Terrace) look like the Taj Mahal! The new CityPlace is adjacent to a hundred acres of raw, undeveloped land that will be home to some 5000 – 6,000 new condominium units.
Didn’t anybody take grade twelve economics?!?!
I’m freaking out here! Think about all the condos that are going to be built on that land! Think about how awful, ugly, and barren that condo ghetto is going to be in four years! And how are you supposed to sell your 1-bedroom condo at Neo when there are ten similar units for sale in your building, and another hundred for sale in the dozen condos next door?
It started with Neo and Montage, but I’m sure Reo and Blantage are only a year away from being finished.
After that, there are another ten condos with stupid one-word names on the way. How is this for marketing – I’m going to come up with ten condo names off the top of my head:
Mercury, Bamboo, Wave, Atlantis, Coral, Victory, Ivy, Da Vinci, Lagoon, and Slaughterhouse. That last one can be in the King & Portland area…
Whew! I’m tired from thinking up all those amazing condo names. I need a nap…
It’s anyone’s guess as to whether or not Mercury becomes the next 24/7 party like Neo and Montage, but I’d stay clear of the whole complex.
If Neo really is a 24/7 party, and beer flows freely from every faucet in every unit, then I would hardly use the word “investment” in association with that building.
The higher net-worth individuals will never seek out 4K Spadina Avenue and the surrounding buildings, so it can never be considered an “up and coming neighborhood” and it will never be “the place to be.”
These units will never be in short supply, so I don’t see the prices ever rising at the same pace as the market as a whole.
And why would you want to live in a building that doubles as a nightclub on weekends?
I’ll have to ask my friend Will on the weekend of July 26th…..when I head over to his housewarming at 4K Spadina…
fred
at 8:29 am
i agree that cityplace is not a good investment. i hate what the buildings are doing to the view of dt toronto!
aside from that, do you mind to elaborate on West Harbour City? It seems like a great project, and wouldn’t mind hearing what you have to say about it.
Thanks!
Alex
at 8:24 pm
I remember back in November – wow, time flies – you said the building would be filled with 20 somethings and be like Melrose Place. Haven’t seen Heather Locklear or Josie Bissett, but its not far off.
This blog is crap
at 6:32 pm
THIS BLOG IS PURE CRAP. I love the building.
Carlyle
at 2:43 pm
I just put an offer to lease at neo. I’m 34 and wife is 28 but we really are not party people. Our issue was one of finding a 1 bedroom that also has parking. So many condos in the city but so few have parking.
Carlyle
at 2:48 pm
Just to be clear the unit we are going to rent has parking included which was a big deal. The neo 1 bedroom plus den is also a very generous sized usable floor Plan compared to the shoebox no parking units most downtown condos offer.
Neos not perfect but I am discovering quickly that renting a downtown condo is all about give and take. Hopefully it works out for us.
anon
at 6:24 pm
if your friend bought the condo, he would have made over a 100k on the unit by now. hopefully he didnt take your advice and bought a unit.
Mike
at 5:58 pm
Quite possibly one of the worst real estate blog posts I’ve ever read. First off, the area is affordable and one of the best locations to be close to everything downtown. That is the single most important factor in real estate – location. Public transit being built to allow even great access is another bonus with all of the contraction efforts on Spadina. Lastly, the area is mainly investors for just that reason. They have invested and made excellent returns (me being one of them) since the units are modern, well priced for Toronto and readily available. I’ve made $130K in 3 years….seems like a pretty darn good investment and you clearly haven’t a clue what you are talking about.
ausaf
at 3:42 pm
This blog was written in 2009 and now after 4 years this entire area has actually done very well . Just go inside and look at co.edition of building.
David Fleming
at 4:15 pm
@ ausaf
The whole city of Toronto has done very well. Every single property has increased in value.
Once we witness a downturn in the real estate cycle, these properties will be hit the hardest.
Until then, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Trevor
at 2:13 am
CityPlace has done well AND kept low maintenance fees… Can’t say that for a lot of buildings in the same time span. CityPlace was meant to be lower quality buildings at more affordable prices (which attracts a younger crowd). Toronto’s an expensive city, so these condos always rent and sell quickly… I’d say that it sounds like a good investment to me (and the thousands of people who invested here)
Hawk
at 3:52 am
There are far more of these tiny unit condo frat houses being built. The strange thing is that the developers are building really expensive penthouses on top of these small, jammed togeter units.
Who would want to live in a $2-5 million apartment above a rental building like this?
Adriana
at 9:56 pm
So.. what do you have to say now in 2014 ..Mr.Knows everything.. ? I own 2 condos @ concord , Apex (@Front) and Montage, so far I had not 1 month vacant since July 2009 when I got the Keys..
It has shown great investment and so far , all those predictions from speculators like you, have only proved to be wrong!
Albert
at 11:26 am
Amen to that :)! Love the place, love the condo and everything about it..
Matthew
at 12:02 pm
I love city place and 4k. Bought the unit in 2010 and started my family here. With a new born and toddler in tow we have no plans to move out of the area. Big units in the heart of the city surrounded by family fun attractions. Aquarium, new lakefront, Fort York and all that Rogers centre offers. I love the new street cars, just a few steps from my door. And our value has gone up to $410k and we paid $340k. Just 20% in five years… No biggie ; )
Usman
at 11:08 am
Lol just bought a unit in this building and your friend would have several 100k by now and all the city place buildings are well run and and sell or rent in days.
Daniel Arsenault
at 8:52 pm
You called it bro…moron.
Mike
at 12:49 am
Bought in 2015 for $340 – current value $525 2.5 years later… shittyplace
Niki
at 3:16 pm
I just moved in to 4k and I absolutely love it. I’m a 29 year old teacher. I’m never awaken by noise. I am close to everything I need. I lived in 250 Wellington street before I moved to 4k. That building was dated and old. The noise level was epic and security was terrible. This article Is biased. Don’t believe it.
Oz
at 5:00 pm
I live in 4K and I am over 30 and yes I have a high income. I have to tell you that I am quite the opposite of what you think about 4K. I live comfortably in my apartment, I am fine with young people partying around me. The construction around the area will only make the neighbourhood more popular. Of course if you are not a city person, that is one thing. But I love city life and being close to the lake is also a great plus.
Matthew
at 11:00 pm
Hey Oz, not sure if you will see this but I am curious to know if you are still enjoying the building and your unit?