I’m about the least religious guy in the world, so excuse my ignorance, but I have a question…
What happens when your church shuts down?
Saving the question of why a church shuts down (especially as some of these are 150 years old…) for another day, I’m curious as to what happens when the place you’ve gone every Sunday for a year, a decade, or your whole life, closes its doors.
Let’s say you’re Episcopalian. Do you look for another Episcopalian church? What if there isn’t one even remotely close to you, ie. it’s three towns over. Do you go to the next best thing? Is a Protestant church sufficient, or must it be specifically Episcopalian?
Over the last fifteen years, I’ve written many blogs on the topic of “church lofts,” so this one is merely the next in line.
But what I find so fascinating about this former church on Annette Street being turned into a condo is that there are already two church condos on Annette Street alone: a former Baptist church at 200 Annette Street, now consisting of eight condominium units, and a former Presbyterian church at 152 Annette Street, now consisting of thirty-four condominiums.
Should the Catholic church at 163 Annette Street be expecting new members or an offer from a developer?
Church lofts in Toronto contain some of the most beautiful, unique, character-filled residential spaces that I’ve ever seen, and I wonder if there’s a certain level of guilt to be had with these? Is it blasphemous to take a building that was intended for worshipping and celebrating God and turning it into a space to watch Netflix and chill?
Another discussion point for today: do developers convert churches into condos because they can sell the hard-loft conversion for more money, and because there are cost-savings associated with the existing dwelling? Or do they convert churches because they’re heritage and thus they’re prohibited from tearing it down to build a 6-storey midrise?
In any event, I plan to return to this site in a year to see how the project has turned out, and I’m looking forward to seeing the first resale unit hit the market thereafter!
Marty
at 9:44 am
…do developers convert churches into condos because *A* they can sell the hard-loft conversion for more money, and because there are cost-savings associated with the existing dwelling? Or do they *B* convert churches because they’re heritage and thus they’re prohibited from tearing it down to build a 6-storey midrise?
I think it might be both A and B. Plus it sounds like a fun conversion. Do developers have fun? I used to work for one that did. Too much fun, one might even say, if they saw us in Vegas.
Steve
at 12:08 pm
Depends on the designations too. There is one at Deer Park that is being turned into condos where only the front half of the existing church was heritage designated so they knocked the back down and are incorporating the front into the condo building. I’m not up to date with the status of this project but I think they were in the process of dropping 28 stories on it.
hoob
at 9:55 am
Once the building is deconsacrated, you can do all the blasphemy and chilling you want and it’s gtg… If you care about such things; after all it’s just a building either way, regardless of the previous occupants’ peculiar habits and superstitions.
Geoff
at 11:37 am
If the alternative is these buildings fall into disrepair and crumble, or are torn down entirely and replaced with some mediocre, then I’m all for it. PS if I were to guess the congregation has already left these churches for the most part, leading to the current situation.
DT
at 12:40 pm
You’ve raised a few different questions, including:
a) what happens to the former parishioners when a church closes
b) should people feel bad about living in a church
c) what’s in it for developers
I know nothing about (c), but know something about (a) and (b).
In 1970, 40% of Canadians went to church weekly. Now it’s less than 10%. On top of that general decline there is a shift in the type of church. Away from Catholic and mainline Protestant, and towards Evangelical and Orthodox (the latter due to immigration).
So those big old churches tend to have only a smattering of people filling the pews on the average Sunday. Which is just not enough to pay for the operating costs. When one closes in Toronto, it’s not too hard for the few people are left that are left to find another church of the same denomination.
At the end of the day it’s not the building that makes the church, it’s the people and the worship that they do. Given there’s so little demand for the buildings now, it’s nice that we can find another use for them, instead of demolishing them entirely. Many of them are beautiful, and beauty does count for something in the end.
Appraiser
at 1:01 pm
“Scotiabank targets $10 Billion commitment in support of affordable housing in Canada”
“Scotiabank today announced that it is the first large financial institution in Canada to align with Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) to transform housing affordability across the country. Scotiabank plans to mobilize $10 billion over the next ten years in support of CMHC’s aspiration – that by 2030, everyone in Canada has a home they can afford and that meets their needs.” https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/scotiabank-targets-10-billion-commitment-in-support-of-affordable-housing-in-canada-882389916.html
A step in the right direction. Bravo Scotiabank!
J G
at 5:08 pm
https://www.blogto.com/real-estate-toronto/2021/04/toronto-condo-prices-falling-only-downtown/?fbclid=IwAR396m60S-uZpAZ7OHj7w2z0GSeReho7u9VsO-L3MCVClCs9sKA3_dwj8F4
Ooops
Bal
at 6:57 pm
Condo might be down but townhouses and semi still on fire
J G
at 7:38 pm
Yes Bal, freeholds are still on fire. Did you buy a place?
I feel like another correction (like 2017) could be coming soon, since sellers are getting greedy. But it’s your call.
Bal
at 8:49 pm
naa i lost my chances last year .i almost had deal with one of the townhouse in Oakville for 842,000 but i didn’t make my move … so it was bought by someone else..brand new from the builder…now after buying from the builder homeowner just put it on sale 1.300,000…..458 increase within 11 months…it hurts but i guess that is life… i should have made my move …i know now i will never be able to get that price but i am also not willing to pay 1.3mil for townhouse..very painful lesson…it is very important that we make right decision on right tome…maybe time to remove housesigma app…lol
Bal
at 8:59 pm
I don’t think correction will happen this year. I think that will only happen next year when interest rate will rise…..nothing will happen to house market until interest rates remain low…in 2017 real reason for the correction was interest rate move….
Suzanne
at 10:26 am
While I can’t speak to the “why” in Toronto, but I will tell you that my husband and I purchased a small deconsecrated church in Savannah, GA that had previously been converted into 2 finished lofts and 1 unfinished space. The church built in 1889 housed at least 3 congregations over the years. First was Episcopal, then Greek Orthodox, and finally Baptist, all of which outgrew the space and still exist in Savannah today. The church fell into disrepair in the 1990’s when it was abandoned for many years, until a man (not a developer), purchased the property and spent 10 years restoring the structure. We’re looking forward to completing the 3rd space!!