Behind The Scenes: A Seller’s Bully Offer Dilemma

Stories!

11 minute read

March 10, 2021

I was showing houses in Roncesvalles on Saturday and agent who was waiting outside with his clients, having the appointment after us, shouted, “Hey man, you’re the blog guy.  I loved those stories you did about the behind the scenes.”

Sure, I’ll take that.

I don’t quite think of myself as “the blog guy,” but what the heck.

But since I was wearing a mask at the time, I thought I should be really flattered that I was recognized by the top-half of my face, and the fashionable self-haircut I’ve been rocking since the pandemic began.

I asked the agent, “Did you think there was anything wrong with what I wrote?”

He threw his head back and said, “What?  Why?  What’s wrong with it?  I mean, I can see some agents not liking all that information floating around out there, but it’s great.  Everybody in my office was talking about it.”

I knew when I clicked “Submit” on that first blog post that there would be segments of our real estate world that wouldn’t like it.  But I’d be lying if I didn’t admit that, for the last fourteen years, I’ve been acutely aware that controversy sells.

The public sees controversy in the form of sellers and agents “gouging” buyers out there, or running an unfair game.

The industry sees controversy in the form of the curtain being lifted up so the general public can watch what’s happening behind the scenes.

I see zero controversy, but rather transparency, something that the public has always wanted, and something that organized real estate should provide more of.

Last Monday, I wrote about an offer night that I had for a condo listing, the twelve offers that were submitted, and how we worked with them to eventually accept a bid.

Last Wednesday, I wrote about a buyer client who lost in a 29-offer melee, only to then win in a slightly more tame 23-offer party.

The former was my idea.  The latter was suggested by a reader who wanted to see the “other side of the coin.”

Both blog posts were well received by the public from a transparency standpoint.

But what about a third side of the real estate coin, er, the real estate Rubix Cube, if you will.  What about dealing with bully offers from the perspective of the seller?

There’s no shortage of Instagram “tips and tricks” from agents that may or may not actually know they’re talking about, but even still, those videos, reels, and Instastories don’t give you much more than a sound-byte or two, and are lacking any real-world application.

So today, why don’t I take you through a recent bully offer process for one of my listings, so that you – buyer or seller, can better understand the process both in terms of logistics and decision-making.  Sound good?

A client of mine owns a 1-bed, 1-bath condo in a very popular Toronto location, in a new(er) building that seems to be the hot-hand at the moment.  Prices in there are just unbelievable, and yet they continue to climb.

My client purchased a new home and we obtained a long closing date on that purchase so we could get her condo cleaned, painted, repaired, staged, and most importantly in this market – vacant for showings.

From the time we purchased her new house to the time we listed her condo for sale, it was about four weeks, but that was by design.  We had a lot of lead-time due to the longer closing on the purchase, and we wanted to roll with the condo market as it continued to gain momentum.

The high-water mark for a 1-bed, 1-bath in the building was $715,500 for a slightly larger unit that sold in August of 2020, basically before the condo market tanked.  However, and this is a big however, this unit faced west over the park and had a CN Tower view.  Whether you’re the type of person to put a large premium on a view, or not, this had tremendous value.

The identical model to my client’s unit had sold in January of this year for $650,000.  This under, in my opinion, under-sold.  The agent was not from the area and he listed at $599,900 with no offer date.  Perhaps he thought it was worth $599,900, because I don’t know that this was a “strategy” on his part; ultimately, five offers were submitted, and the property was sold for $650,000.

I felt the unit “should” have sold for $670,000.

Oh, and by the way, this model is 578 square feet.  I’ll save you the calculation – that’s $1,159 per square foot.

See what I mean?  Not cheap, right?

We listed at $599,900 with a goal of landing in the high-$600’s.  Obviously, that was far from automatic, given the identical unit had just sold for $650,000, but I knew that some agents would hang on to their “comparable sales” for dear life, and others would simply move with the market.

The property looked stunning if I do say so myself.  My stager did an incredible job, my client moved out for the week, and showings poured in right away.

I knew that we would get a pre-emptive offer.  All listings do.

My client, having been a long-time blog reader, had seen a post I wrote years ago about having your “holy shit number” in your mind before you’re presented with a bully offer.  I always tell my clients NOT to give me that number, but rather to wait until we have a pre-emptive.

Having said that, I also obviously have my number as well, which is part of my job, after all.  I need to guide the client, advise them, and often push them either forward or backward, as needed.

We listed the property on a Tuesday, as I always do.  For reference, I prefer to list on Tuesday and review offers the following Monday.  This is by design.  With offers on Monday, it means those interested buyers won’t see other new listings on Monday, Tuesday, and/or Wednesday, and lose interest in our property.

On Tuesday night, I received a pre-emptive offer.

It was for $645,000, conditional on financing.

Any and all of you know that this offer never had a shot, and not only because of the price.  I mean, who in the world makes a conditional bully offer?  Say what you want right now – say that the buyer should “do what’s in his best interest, and not that of the seller,” but I will reply that there’s no point in doing something that has a 0.00% chance of being successful.

Oh yeah, by the way, this offer was on behalf of an agent buying for himself…

Throughout the day, I had been chatting with another agent who has a good reputation and does a fair amount of work in the area.  She told me her client was interested, might consider making a pre-emptive offer, and that she would be in touch later that night.  I was very transparent: I told her that the number would have to be really good in order for my client to forego an offer night, and she understood.

Later that night, she called me back and said, “My buyer would go to $680,000.  Do you think that’s something your seller would consider?”

Now, unfortunately, we need to stop the story for a moment as this particular situation requires further discussion.

There are a LOT of agents out there who freeze when they’re asked this question.  Many agents freeze because they’re inexperienced, and many agents are experienced but freeze because they’re afraid of making a mistake.  But you know what?  I really don’t think you can make a mistake here.

On Sunday, I was notified that there was a pre-emptive offer on a house my clients were considering.  The house was listed at $1,499,900 and I called the agent and said, “I see you’ve got an offer on your desk already; my clients were going to come to offer night around $1,750,000, so is that worth seeing?”

He said, “I can’t answer that for you.  Come if you want, or don’t.”

Hey, totally fair.  He doesn’t owe me anything, and this is how many agents would answer that question.

But let’s say he’s got $1,700,000 in hand.  Why wouldn’t he tell me to bring the offer?  And don’t tell me that it’s not “fair” for him to answer, because that’s nonsense.

Now let’s say he’s got $1,800,000 in hand.  How does he answer?  What’s he afraid of?  If he says, “Nah, you’re way behind at $1,750,000,” and I was being cheeky and only testing the waters, and I bring $1,825,000, have I out-smarted him?  Did I put one over on him?  No.  Absolutely not.  He’s got more money for his clients!  But the problem is: many agents have egos that trump their clients’ best interests.  Some agents don’t answer that question because they don’t want the buyer agent to gain anything from them.

When you’ve already got an offer in hand, as a listing agent, and other buyer agents are floating their verbal numbers at you, you have nothing to lose by talking shop with them.  Nothing except your ego.

So now back to our story: a buyer agent has asked me, “Would a bully of $680,000 do it?”  Many agents in this position would simply say, “I can’t answer that for you,” but they would so so without thinking it through.  If I said, “No,” then maybe she was just testing me, and I end up getting her to submit her offer higher.  The only downside here is that I say, “No,” and she tells her client, who then figures she can’t afford the condo, and doesn’t submit that offer on our offer night.

I called my client and told her that we had a verbal pre-emptive for $680,000, and she told me that her “holy shit” number was $700,000.

“It’s gotta start with the number-seven,” she told me.  “If I get less on offer night, that’s fine.  But if the buyer wants to buy out that option of going to an offer night, it has to be $700,000.”

That makes sense.

With respect to when to forego an offer night, I usually tell my clients that they need to weigh the downside versus the upside.  My client was going to see $680,000 again, no doubt about it.  So she could let this offer go, and even if this buyer lost interest, my client is going to see this offer again.  Now, let’s say she’s offered $700,000.  What’s her upside and what’s her downside?  Could she end up with “only” $680,000?  Yes.  But how much more could she get on offer night?  The last sale was $650,000 one month ago!

Hence, her “holy shit” price of $700,000.

I called the buyer agent and told her to come back on offer night with that number, and she thanked me.  She was nice.  Courteous.  Professional.  She understood the position she put me in, and she respected that I didn’t just kick her to the curb.

A half-hour later, another agent tried his hand with a bully offer, but he actually submitted one, unlike the last agent who just threw in a verbal.  His offer was for $675,000, unconditional.  No deposit cheque in hand, however.  A reader asked me about this last week: why the bank draft needed to be herewith.  Well, if we’re going to forego our offer night and accept a bully offer, we’d better be damn sure we have consideration for the deal.

I told this agent that we were going to wait until offer night, and he was frustrated.  He got a bit agitated and concluded, “I don’t agree with what she’s doing,” but of course he didn’t.  He works for the buyer.

Day one tally: three bully offers between $645,000 and $680,000, two of them unconditional, and 17 appointments booked on the property.

The next day, an agent called me and said, “What number do you think would get a bully offer done?”

Now here’s where you might take what I said above, and throw it right out the window.  Here’s where you need to proceed very carefully, and play the game.

Let’s say I told this guy, “We would need $700,000.”

If he was thinking about making a bully offer for more, then I’ve shot myself in the foot.

If he was thinking about making an offer for less, then he might tell his client that it’s not worth pursuing on offer night.  And as you know, on offer night, we need those “dummy bids.”  The public doesn’t like this, but those buyers and agents who either have no clue what they’re doing, or do, and are fine to waste their own time with offers of the list price, are helping us to push the serious bidders higher.  Remember, stupid isn’t my problem, so don’t blame me for how the game works.

In any event, I told the agent, “I honestly don’t know,” even though I did, and continued, “I think the seller has some high aspirations for a bully offer, but who knows how things will play out on offer night.”

There’s a time to be direct and a time to be aloof.  In this case, you want to keep the agent from discouraging the buyer, while allowing for a pre-emptive.

I’ll be honest: I didn’t think this agent would flop the nuts, as they say in poker.  So boy, was I ever surprised when he submitted an excellent pre-emptive offer at 7:55pm later that evening!

I had just sat down to my lonely salad when I opened the offer on my iPhone.

I called my client.

“We have another pre-emptive offer,” I told her.  “And it’s not $700,000.”

She paused, and said, “Oh.  Okay,” with equal parts disappointment and confusion as to why I was calling her.

“It’s $720,000,” I said.

“SHUT THE FRONT DOOR,” she replied, like a responsible adult in a kids’ commercial for Sunny Delight.

“Soooo………..should we ring the bell, or what?” I asked.

Ring the bell, start your engines, open the levee, whatever you want to call it.  Once you announce to all the agents that have shown the property that you have a pre-emptive offer that you’re going to work with, there’s no turning back.

We discussed the number and determined that there was no way to turn it down.  Not only was this $20,000 above her “holy shit” number, but it would be a new record in the building for a 1-bed, 1-bath, and beat out a larger unit with a park and CN Tower view.

This would be $1,246 per square foot.

The offer was irrevocable until 10:00pm and I told her that wasn’t enough time for the 30-something agents who had booked appointments to rally their clients, so I would see if I could get the agent to extend that timeline.

The agent wasn’t willing, of course.  Not at first.

“I can extend to midnight if that helps?” he said.

The issue for me wasn’t so much that we needed to allow other agents to beat the $720,000, but rather there’s always an element of fairness and professionalism at play here.  If I email thirty agents at 8:15pm and say, “pre-emptive offer registered, presenting tonight at 9:30pm,” I’m basically kicking them in the teeth while waving my middle finger.

The only “rule” in this situation is that the listing agent must inform anybody who has expressed an interest in the property.  So in theory, I could email all these agents at 8:15pm and sign an accepted offer at 8:20pm.

Pretty shitty, eh?

I pushed the agent to extend his irrevocable until 10am the next morning and he pushed me back.  I really wanted to avoid pissing off thirty agents and their buyers, especially given how the market is right now.

Thankfully, the buyer agent agreed, and he re-submitted with a 10am irrevocable.

I went into my home office and closed the door.  It was going to be a long night.

The first phone call I made was to the agent from the previous night who had floated that $680,000 verbal offer, and told her that I had an incredible offer in hand, and to get out ahead of this with her buyer.  She thanked me for the head’s up and called me back shortly thereafter to tell me she wouldn’t be able to compete.

Then I sent out an email to the 30+ agents through BrokerBay, and waited.

Phone call, after phone call, after phone call.  Right up until 11pm.

The agent who had submitted the $675,000 offer the night before called me.

“What’s with this chick?” he asked.  “She doesn’t want to take a bully, then she does want to take a bully.  Tell her to make up her mind!”

I kept quiet.  I simply said, “She’s received an offer that is too good to pass up.”

“Better than ours from last night?” he asked.

“Way better,” I told him.  And just like that, he was out.

I spoke to nine agents that night, some at greater length than others.  Some of us just chatted about the market and caught up.  Nothing quite like commiserating at 11pm on a Wednesday.

The next morning, I received an email from the agent who submitted at $645,000, conditional, two days prior, with an improved offer for $665,000.  He added, “I’m going to the bank to get a deposit cheque,” and I immediately called him and told him not to waste his time.

We got another offer for $680,000, and surprisingly, another one for $705,000, which was exceptional!  But, it wasn’t as exceptional as the $720,000 offer we had in hand, and that agent said it represented his clients “best,” so that was that.

At 9:30am, I called my client to discuss the acceptance but she red-buttoned me!

“May I call you later?” appeared that obvious pro-forma text from the iPhone, since 99% of people would say “can” instead of “may,” even though the latter is grammatically correct.

“I’ve uploaded to DocuSign.  Sign the damn thing before 10am or I’ll have a heart attack,” I texted back.

She was on a work call but excused herself.  We had a laugh.  And then we signed the deal.

Not only had she sold her condo, firm, with a bank draft in hand, and not only had she set a record in the building, but she obliterated any previous sale.

And the best part?

She had used a “conservative” sale price when calculating the affordability on her new home, so she had a boat-load of extra cash to either pay down the mortgage, renovate, or take a wonderful trip……………oh…………….wait……………pandemic…………….yeah.

Hey, 2022 is just around the corner, right?

If you’re a seller about to go to market, you need to consider the preceding and have a plan in place for when you receive a bully offer, because it’s not a question of “if.”

I tell my sellers that there’s a 40% chance they’ll end up selling before offer night in this market, and those odds are increasing rapidly with every passing day…

Written By David Fleming

David Fleming is the author of Toronto Realty Blog, founded in 2007. He combined his passion for writing and real estate to create a space for honest information and two-way communication in a complex and dynamic market. David is a licensed Broker and the Broker of Record for Bosley – Toronto Realty Group

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27 Comments

  1. hoob

    at 8:43 am

    Your choice of masthead image for the article, and the way the narrative played out, for some odd reason immediately brought to mind the back-and-forth and cageyness and character studies from the Coen brothers’ Miller’s Crossing .

    1. Geoff

      at 10:14 am

      look into your heart…. what heart.

  2. Mike Clarke

    at 10:05 am

    Brilliant storytelling and great narrative. as an agent who has been in the business over 30 years, i actually learned some nuances. Loved the way you handle Offers and the professionalism you show to the agents that have to be at high stress levels.

    Well done!

  3. Marty

    at 10:28 am

    That was very riveting! Enjoyed it.

    BEST LINE:

    I had just sat down to my lonely salad when I opened the offer on my iPhone.

    1. Bal

      at 2:32 pm

      Treasury yield is not control by bank of Canada….anything of extreme is dangerous….we all know that the house market is in extreme.

  4. Pingback: Best Real Estate Agent In GTA – Behind The Scenes: A Seller’s Bully Offer Dilemma | Toronto Realty Blog
  5. Condodweller

    at 11:02 am

    This is great news! Now if I go searching for 1 bed condos under 600sqft for over $700k downtown I should find at least one.

    So this changes the whole paradigm of bully offers all over again David. You have written in the past that a bully offer has to be strong enough to knock you out. In this case, you get a knock out offer for your client that is far higher than the record for an inferior suite in the building for way over what your client would be happy with and instead of saying thank you very much, pleasure doing business with you, you go and try to shop around this offer?

    I’m actually surprised the agent extended the time. The only way I would extend the deadline with a strong offer like that is if you told me your client was a UFC fighter and he is getting the $hit kicked out of him in the cage at the moment and he needs to be conscious to sign a valid agreement. I’m guessing he/she knew that there was no way anyone else was going to beat it though.

    I’m curious though, is it ever enough?

    1. R

      at 12:10 pm

      Right? Why wouldn’t you put a super short irrevocable if you were the buyer? What good can come from more time to have the seller shop it around?

      f offering a big bully, put a 15min irrevocable. Seller can email everyone to do the due diligence. If other agents are pissed at the seller, not your problem as a buyer.

      And why wouldn’t you want those other agents offering to bring a bully even if it sucks. You could shop that around to others and maybe get a higher one or get someone to throw in who might have waited. Seems like a missed opportunity to play the losers for your sellers benefit.

      1. Don't Trust In The Process

        at 12:38 pm

        David merely said “thankfully, the buyer agent agreed” but I bet he played the reputation card – it’s way better in the long run for the buying agent to be on the good side of a realtor who gets recognized even when masked up, which assumes that the buying agent is not in the same league as David. In other words, get a heavy-hitting realtor if you want to submit bully offers.

        1. R

          at 3:06 pm

          So agents are looking out for their reputation more than their clients? That’s a slippery slope. The excuse about “doing the best for the client” is what agents always use to pump the circus around multiple offer situation. Don’t hate the player, hate the game and all that…

          If you are playing hardball by making a bully offer, it stands on the $$$ alone. As a seller, you don’t need to be nice and give others a chance to beat you. A buyer isn’t accepting the premium over open market bids because the agent presenting it is a nice guy.

          1. Condodweller

            at 5:02 pm

            Exactly. The $$$ speak for themselves. At best a courtesy email saying a bully offer was accepted to the other agent’s would be sufficient.

      2. Appraiser

        at 12:51 pm

        In an extreme sellers market the best realtors adapt quickly and navigate the deal accordingly.

        In an extreme buyers market the best realtors adapt quickly and learn how to write multiple conditions into a deal – especially conditional on sale of the buyers property, and to ask for everything under the sun to be included in the transaction. They may even ask for the seller to take back a mortgage at below market rates to sweeten the deal. And get it all!

        Ah, the good old days.

        1. Bal

          at 1:20 pm

          worry not ….good old days are coming soon….little bit interest rate move….5 years treasury yield move little bit higher and you will see good old days…

          1. Appraiser

            at 2:01 pm

            “Bank of Canada will hold current level of policy rate until inflation objective is sustainably achieved, continues quantitative easing”
            https://www.bankofcanada.ca/2021/03/fad-press-release-2021-03-10/

            “…Low-wage workers, young people and women have borne the brunt of the job losses. The spread of more transmissible variants of the virus poses the largest downside risk to activity, as localized outbreaks and restrictions could restrain growth and add choppiness to the recovery…”

          2. Chris

            at 2:29 pm

            “The market is pricing in boom times ahead. You know what that means. Higher growth expectations mean higher inflation expectations and a greater probability of rate increases—sooner than many expect.

            RBC’s CEO put it like this:

            “We see inflationary pressure building earlier than later…We do see…central banks having to respond to this in 2022, the latter half of 2022, with rate increases. Versus where you might have thought – late 2023, even 2024 – six months ago.”
            Source: The Globe and Mail

            It’s clear the BoC is behind the curve. It admitted today, “GDP growth in the first quarter of 2021 is now expected to be positive, rather than the contraction [we] forecast in January” (i.e., six weeks ago).

            The Bank largely attributed the surge in bond yields, which have boosted 5-year fixed mortgage rates 20-30 bps in recent weeks, to “the improved U.S. growth outlook.”

            The Bank also repeated that it “will continue its [bond buying] program until the recovery is well underway.” But so far this year, those purchases have not kept yields, and fixed mortgage rates, from rocketing higher. The Bank made little attempt to talk down bond yields today. That seemingly lowers the probability it will engage in some kind of yield curve control to cap borrowing costs.”

            https://www.ratespy.com/a-slightly-rosier-boc-keeps-rates-rock-bottom-031017997

          3. Caprice

            at 11:24 am

            “The Bank of Canada kept its trend-setting interest rate at the record low of 0.25 per cent on Wednesday, and signalled it plans to continue to do everything it can to stimulate the economy even as there are signs the recovery from COVID-19 is going better than expected.”

            “The bank signaled a few months ago that it has no plans to raise its rate for another two years, and it reiterated that plan on Wednesday.”

            https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bank-of-canada-1.5943713

          4. Chris

            at 11:50 am

            “We remain committed to holding the policy interest rate at the effective lower bound until economic slack is absorbed so that the 2 percent inflation target is sustainably achieved. In the Bank’s January projection, this does not happen until into 2023.”

            Like I said below, their commitment is not to low rates until 2023. The commitment is to not raising rates until the inflation target is achieved, which they have forecast to occur in 2023.

            If inflation accelerates, the same way GDP picked up faster than they expected, that timeline changes.

            Meanwhile, bond yields continue to climb.

  6. Libertarian

    at 3:00 pm

    Since the word of the day is transparency, I think the bully offer scenario is more transparent than offer night.

    David listed the unit, people made their bids, David and his client were satisfied with the highest bid and closed the deal. None of this “you have to improve your offer” nonsense even though a buyer doesn’t know whether that’s price (how much) or conditions.

    I will say that $720K for a 1-bed under 600 feet is mind blowing. Bad on the buying agent for recommending the client bid that much.

    1. Condodweller

      at 4:59 pm

      Since the usual suspects have hijacked my thread with the usual market prognostication posts I will reply here.

      Well, I’m guessing he floated the idea that they would need well over $700k to get the place. Isn’t this the same as saying you have to improve your offer? Let’s say for the sake of argument that someone was stupid enough to offer $730k, then what? David would go back to the $720k offer and ask them to “improve” their above everybody’s expectation bid? This is exactly how agents are driving up prices as now this unit will become the comp for the next buyer.

      I love this:
      “What’s with this chick?” he asked. “She doesn’t want to take a bully, then she does want to take a bully. Tell her to make up her mind!”

      I mean obviously if you get an offer you can’t refuse you’ll take it, but it’s funny.

      BTW I checked and there are 10 sold condos downtown under 600sqft and over 700k. 12 if you include the two on the lakeshore by the Humber. However, they are all exceptional units, some new, in landmark buildings, penthouses, high floor, with parking and/or dens etc. from 705-750. I don’t know what’s so attractive about this specific building to make it worthwhile over any of these other units? I’m assuming David “altered” the facts to protect the “innocent” as they say in the movies as I don’t recall seeing a unit sell for $720k so I sincerely hope it was one of these units otherwise I’d say anything above the $650 would be a reasonable amount and if it was me, at $675k I would be shooting the lights out.

      Anyway, the future looks so bright…I gotta wear shades…

      1. Libertarian

        at 12:29 pm

        I agree with most of what you wrote, but David did not tell the $720K agent anything about price. The quote:

        “In any event, I told the agent, “I honestly don’t know,” even though I did, and continued, “I think the seller has some high aspirations for a bully offer, but who knows how things will play out on offer night.”

        There’s a time to be direct and a time to be aloof. In this case, you want to keep the agent from discouraging the buyer, while allowing for a pre-emptive.”

        So that agent picked $720K out of thin air. Must be nice to be that rich and have that kind of money to throw around like it’s loose change.

    1. Bal

      at 9:57 am

      Naa…. market will change quickly….this bullshit cannot keep going…. dear inflation is here….

    2. Chris

      at 10:12 am

      Unless inflation picks up.

      Remember, the BoC did not promise no rate rises until 2023. Rather, they committed to low rates until inflation rises closer to their target of 2%, which they projected to occur in 2023.

      Meanwhile, bond yields continue to climb.

      1. Bal

        at 10:54 am

        Does not matter if bank of Canada raise or not..::if treasury yield keep climbing….house market will change….remember my words….only and only interest rate impact house market.

  7. Scott

    at 9:32 am

    This was very captivating! I have no interest in real estate (so why am I here, right?) but I read this right to the bottom. It reads like a novel. Super impressive

  8. Buyer

    at 1:06 am

    This is such a bs article. What value did you provide your client other than making a selling experience all about yourself? You got an offer for 680k didn’t take it because your client’s min was 700k in her mind. You held out for another offer from a totally different agent for $720k. In your mind, a comparable unit “should” have sold for 670k and tried to get a friend to force a 680k bid and failed.

    Again, what value did you provide? Absent your narcissist mind the buyer could easily just waited out for a higher offer herself save the 5% and leave you to your lonely salad. You did absolutely nothing but take the credit for a buyer outbidding for a shoebox.

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