Reader Mailbag!

Reader Mailbag | March 4, 2020


What I love the most about these emails is that they all cover more than one topic.

A reader emailing about her agent is also asking about customer service, as well as bully offers.

A reader emailing about staging is also asking, indirectly, about the agent, as well as……..customer service.

And a third reader, well, you get the idea.

Let’s have a gander…

 


 

Hi Dave,

I’m working with an agent that my mother refrred me to so I’m sorry if this seems two-faced that I’m asking you a question but here goes:

My agent insisted that we check out properties at weekend open houses rather than during the week with him and as a result we’ve lost out on three houses that sold with bully offers.  All three of these times he told us that these houses weren’t good for us any ways and I’m starting to feel like he’s just covering his tracks.

This is an agent with a 5-star rating on google and who has been in the business for two decades so I don’t know if I can undermine him and say that hes insincere.

He told us that properties selling from bully offers always sell for more money that their worth.  My partner believes him but I don’t.  I have no idea if a house is worth what it sells for or not.  Do you think bully offers are always high?

Love the blog and thank you!

J.

Hi J,

Don’t worry, I get a lot of emails from people who are working with agents already.  I suppose I see some irony in that.  I try to respond to all the emails I get, and recently it’s because I’ve started putting these in a feature I call “Reader Mailbag.”  Do you mind if I put this in a future blog?

A few things jumped out at me in your email, and I have to laugh at the comment about Google Reviews!  I’ve never cared about Google reviews, but that’s just me.  I have like a 2.8 star rating because all my reviews are spam.  Things like, “Cityplace is an awful building,” which has nothing to do with me.  One person said something about the “place” being dirty, and bad management.  Then there are people who just don’t like me and write, “Joke realtor, no concept of the market,” which isn’t really fair, since, to be blunt, I understand the market better than 99.999% of agents.  But enough about that.  What I mean is that I don’t put a lot of stake into Google reviews.  If an agent has a 5-star rating, he’s just good at asking his clients, right after they transact, to write him a review.  Come to think of it, my marketing manager has begged me to start doing this.  I guess I should get my rating up over a 3.0?  Reminds me of that episode of Black Mirror

More importantly, the other two issues: 1) Going to open houses, 2) Bully offers

I will occasionally ask clients to view a property at an open house, but only if it’s Friday and we’re planning for Saturday, and I can’t make it, nor can a member of my team.

If I were to see a new listing on a Monday and tell the client, “Go see this at the open house on the weekend,” then I would be a lazy, miserable, awful agent.  Period.

With all due respect to your agent (and I mean that as sincerely as it sounds), he’s doing a terrible job for you.  Houses are selling via pre-emptive offers, and whether you are prepared to submit a pre-emptive or not, you need to see these houses.  Personally, I’m of the opinion that your agent should be advising you on how the pre-emptive offer can be used as a successful tactic in this market.

If a property comes out on Monday, then your agent has five days in which he can show you the property.  So say, in advance, that you should see it on the weekend tells me what I need to know about his service.

I have two agents that work with me, and both are agents I trust to take my buyers to showings.  I try my best to be at every showing, but it’s impossible.  If I can’t take them personally, then it’s because I’m taking offers on a listing, or I’m already out with other buyers.  And I still work Saturday and Sunday too.

As for the idea that all properties selling via bully offer are selling for more than they should, this is nonsense.  My entire strategy with a bully offer is usually offering less than we would on offer night, and thus if we are successful, then the property under-sold.  I sold a house for $900,000 this year that would have sold for $975,000 on offer night.  Your agent either doesn’t understand the market, or does, and you’re correct – he’s covering his tracks.

This is about as blunt as I’ll ever get in an email response to somebody I haven’t met, but this really struck a chord with me.  The market is nuts out there, and buyers need guidance more now than ever before.

Best of luck in your search!

David.

 


 

David,

I’m a regular reader of your blog and there is a topic that I don’t believe you have covered before which is agents who stage themselves.

My business partner is selling his home and his agent is doing the staging “in-house” as he says.  I have read many of your blog articles where you talk about your staging team and how important they are to the process.  I haven’t sold real estate in a long time so I don’t have personal experience.

You don’t do your own staging. Why not? Have you ever before or would you ever?

I can see the benefit to having one person do everything. But I can also see the flip side of the coin which is that one person should NOT do everything. Like a real estate agent who is a mortgage broker and a real estate lawyer. There’s a customer for that I’m sure but not most.

My partner’s agent looks to have just rented furniture from a warehouse. Does the buyer know the difference?

Thank you for your response.

Marta

Hi Marta,

Thanks for your email, I think you’re right and perhaps this is a topic I’ve never addressed.  Maybe in passing, maybe semantically, and maybe cynically, but not on its own.

Your example of an agent/lawyer/mortgage broker is spot-on.

I believe in subject matter experts, and I believe in specialization.  I’ve talked about this on my blog many times, in many regards.

A real estate agent and a mortgage broker are two different jobs, and should remain as such.  I’ve seen people who have a business card as an agent on one side of the card, and as a mortgage broker on the other.  Aside from being a conflict of interest, it’s also impossible to be at the top of your game at both.

Yes, there’s a consumer for this, but that same consumer believes that discount brokerages are the way to sell your largest and most expensive asset in the most robust real estate market on the planet.  They get what they pay for.

There are several issues with an agent staging properties him or herself.

First of all, a real stager is a designer by trade.  You really can’t be a stager unless you are trained (like any other business), and I know that my preferred staging company has two principals, one who is a designer by trade, and one who does the on-site planning.  They are an incredible team, and along with the rest of their squad, they have performed miracles at every property I’ve ever listed with them.  I bring them in to every listing I have.

A real estate agent is not a designer.  I mean, some, perhaps.  A handful.  But the agent renting furniture from “Rent Wow” to stage a property him or herself is not a graduate of a design school, and again, believing in subject matter experts the way I do, I refuse to believe that an A++ staging job will be done by a B- real estate agent.

When I visit a property and speak to the seller for the first time, I’ll do a walk-through and tell them what my stager might say.  I’ve done a thousand walk-throughs before, so I know when my stager will want to replace the over-sized bar stools with ones that actually fit, or get rid of the black feature wall.  But I that doesn’t mean I’ll try to do the job myself.

Secondly, aside from real estate agents who own staging companies (there are a few), I don’t believe agents have the necessary scale.

A colleague of mine from another brokerage bought half of a retiring agent’s inventory, and he does his own staging for the most part.  He knows when he needs to call in the specialists for a luxury listing, but for a 1-bedroom condo, he’s got a plethora of furniture to choose from.

Those agents, you can probably count on two hands.

The agents that say they do their own staging are the ones hanging out in the parking lot at Rent Wow before they open in the morning; they’re the ones with cars in the parking lot with head-boards sticking out the windows.

Also consider that furniture goes out of style.  Furniture gets an incredible amount of wear-and-tear when you’re using it over and over.  How many agents can keep up with changing styles and constantly re-stock the cupboard?

Last, but not least, timing is everything in real estate.  When my buyer-client purchases a house, and I know I have to get their condo on the market in two weeks, I’m meeting with my stager within 2-3 days of their purchase, we have a plan in place thereafter, then we’re painting, packing, moving, staging, and taking photos.  This only comes from experience, and repetition.  It can only be done by those who are the best at what they do.

This has become an epic response, but to be honest, I’m already thinking about incorporating this into a blog post, so just know that I’m not like a crazy ex-boyfriend who answers a two-word text message with a six-page, handwritten letter.  I’ll probably post this response down the line, so I appreciate you bringing up the topic.

Thanks again for your continued readership!

David.

 


 

 

Hello David, I love the Toronto Realty Blog – keep it up! Thanks.

This question may strike you as “duh” but I am struggling with it. My question is whether to use different agents for buying and selling in different neighbourhoods.

I own a house in a neighbourhood – let’s call it Eastdale. I know an agent in Eastdale who helped me buy this house several years ago and would be happy to use him again. But I plan to look for a new house to buy in a different neighbourhood, far from Eastdale – let’s call it Newton. My agent in Eastdale doesn’t know Newton well – his agency is small, very local, and for him to drive across town to look at houses in Newton would be time-consuming for him and his (small team).

Should I use a different agent for buying in Newton? if so, how will that impact the typical commission payments and pricing? And impact the relationship with the Eastdale agent?

Feel free to use this scenario on your blog if you think your readers would be interested. Your views and insights are appreciated, as always.

Andrew from Eastdale

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for your email and the kind words!

Your predicament is one that many buyers and sellers go through.

I’m of the opinion that today’s modern agent needs to know every area, plain and simple. Perhaps not in the GTA, but personally, I can transact anywhere in the central core and feel like an expert. The so-called “area expert” is now a dinosaur. That made sense pre-internet, perhaps. This goes for both selling and buying. I did a listing presentation last week for a really unique home in west end and the sellers asked us about our presence in the area. I told them that we’re not “area experts,” and by that, I mean we don’t have our faces on billboards and benches, we don’t hand out pies in the park, we don’t “sponsor” school events, etc. Instead, we’re experts at marketing and selling, which is what is actually important in 2020. Showing your “involvement in the area” is a ploy to get listings, not sell houses.

The idea of “time-consuming to drive across town” is a fallacy. My team and I sell properties as far north as Newmarket, and the drive is simply part of the job. All our time is consumed by the job in one way or another.

The bottom line is: if your agent doesn’t know anything about the area in which you want to purchase, then don’t use him for the purchase. If he doesn’t understand or agree, then that’s a big enough concern to consider not using him for a potential sale as well. A good agent, and by that, I mean one that serves his clients, will not harbor resentment for your decision to use somebody else.

As for the commission, your buyer agent is compensated by the seller, so it doesn’t affect you, unless you had a deal with the listing agent that you’d get a discount if you both bought and sold with him. That, again, I believe is a mistake. I tell people all the time that they might save $10,000 in commission by hiring a different agent, but that agent might get them $75,000 less for the property than I would. Trust me, I see it all the time. Saving money but buying the wrong house is a mistake too.

David.

 


 

Thanks to the readers for sending in their questions, which made for some great blog fodder!

Back To Top

Post a Comment

Your email address will not be published.

46 Comments

  1. Appraiser

    at 7:18 am

    TRREB data for February released today.

    Sales up +45.6%

    Average Price +14.8%

    HPI Index up +10.19%

    Active Listings down -33.6%

    All the ingredients for continued upward price pressure are present in this market.

    1. Chris

      at 7:37 am

      Quite the YoY bump.

      Not so sure I’d say “all ingredients” are pointing to further price appreciation though. Rental market has cooled significantly, per John Pasalis.

      Plus there’s the potential black swan called COVID-19.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/upshot/coronavirus-recession-US.html

      The fact that the US Fed made an emergency 50 bps cut yesterday, a move last done during the Great Recession, should tell us all we need to know about where they stand on the possible economic fallout from the virus.

      1. Bal

        at 7:56 am

        But the job market is strong…interest rates are coming down… these ingredients will push house prices further high…no?

        1. Chris

          at 8:23 am

          Bal, nobody can see the future. Maybe a COVID-19 vaccine is developed later this week, the panicked stocking up on hand sanitizer subsides, and all is well? Or maybe it throws China, the USA, and subsequently us, into recession? Who knows.

        1. Chris

          at 9:20 am

          Neither you nor I are epidemiologists nor microbiologists, so we’re in position to comment on the path the virus will take over coming months, or if it is “over-sensationalized”. You simply have no clue, full stop. Even the experts aren’t sure.

          But that misses the point.

          China has quarantined a province of almost 60 million people. Japan has cancelled schools for the month of March, and is debating pushing the Olympic games. Italy has shuttered all schools and universities for the next two weeks.

          Nobody can doubt the economic impact these actions will have. Manufacturing output, consumer spending, tourism, etc., have all declined. If the recommendations for social distancing continues, which seems likely as governments seek to contain the spread of COVID-19, the economic harm is almost certain to deepen.

    2. David Fleming

      at 11:41 am

      @ Appraiser

      These numbers are insane.

      Month over month:

      1) Average 416 condo price from $679,182 in January to $722,675 – a 6.4% increase.
      2) Average GTA house price from $839,363 in January to $910,290 – an 8.45% increase.

      I was going to do a “predictions” blog for today, but my basement flooded last night and I was a bit busy!

      I was going to suggest that condo prices are up 4-5% month-over-month, and that GTA prices are up 3-4%. I would have been way low!

        1. David Fleming

          at 12:43 pm

          @ LTR

          Nightmare. But as I’m telling my wife, “It’s just a thing. It’s not health, it’s not love, it’s not disease.”

          Then once that BS saying wears off, you’re back to the nightmare….

  2. Verbal Kint

    at 9:06 am

    If you can consistently buy houses for $75,000 less than they’d go for on offer night, and sell them again for $75,000 more than another agent would get, I honestly don’t know why you bother with clients at all.

    1. Andrei

      at 12:57 pm

      This man has a point. To be fair however, that is David’s advertising style and I find it rather effective if not entirely insidious. His disdain for the sloppiness, stupidity, lack of tact and attention to detail in others inevitably highlights his own strengths.

    2. Not Harold

      at 2:11 pm

      Because residential real estate doesn’t allow for economies of scale while transaction costs and speed kill you despite any arb advantages.

      In liquid markets you can take advantage of this arb skill. Stocks, bonds, commercial REITs, condo development all leverage this type of skill to a greater or lesser extent. Which is why you get Bill Ackman, Roelof Botha, Ed Sonshine and the Del Zottos.

      In single family you only saw single family get bought at scale by PE firms due to mass foreclosures. Their advantage was not skill at executing transactions – Invitation Homes et al were the only bid in the market. They had mass quantities of capital when others were bankrupt or close enough and they had the lower cost of capital than scrappier competitors.

      The model was not to take an extra few bps off a transaction, as you would in the bond market, and just lever up and do 10000x as many transactions, it was to buy at 25 cents on the dollar, rent to create neutral to very positive carry, and then sell when you tripled the original purchase price and 10-15x your equity investment.

      Far better to have effectively no working capital in the business and do mass volumes of transactions than to need 20MM+ in equity and 80MM+ in debt to make it work. All while paying commercial rates on the debt (aka not 2.5%) and even worse rate on the equity.

      Flipping works when you can leverage contractor connections and do one project at a time to take advantage of principal residence rates (and lack of cap gains taxes). Replacing a high volume broker’s salary by flipping at scale just doesn’t work, especially after you do a RAROIC analysis.

      I know you have a hate on for DF, but keep the venom to things that are at least somewhat plausible!

      1. Jennifer

        at 1:08 pm

        “Flipping works when you can leverage contractor connections and do one project at a time to take advantage of principal residence rates (and lack of cap gains taxes)”

        Except not. One-two you’re probably good. More than that and I won’t be surprised if CRA comes knocking on your door. Doesn’t matter if it is one at a time.

  3. Ed

    at 9:09 am

    I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect a break on fees if you are using the same agent to sell one property and purchase another.
    IMO the commission model is broken. If I purchase a property this year for $1,000,000 and sell it next year for $1,150,000 why should the fees to sell increase by 15%.
    What justifies the increase.
    Another example, if I had two properties to sell one valued at $1 million and another at $2 million. What costs involved justify the doubling of fees?

    1. Marina

      at 11:21 am

      Well, yes and no.
      Break on 2 transactions, sure. Volume discount is universal.
      As for the % model, there are a couple of things. First, I think more expensive properties are harder to sell, in general. And the % I think is supposed to motivate the agent to try to get a higher sell price.
      Now whether that actually happens, I don’t know. But what would your alternate fee proposal be? Flat fee? Percentage but on some king of bracket basis (e.g. 5% On the first 500k, 4% on the next million, and so forth)? What would be more fair for BOTH sides?

      1. Ed

        at 12:02 pm

        Some sort of blended commission would make the most sense to me, and maybe add in some variable for time on the market.

        1. Kramer

          at 10:50 am

          I like it Ed.
          If you got an expensive home to sell and you do the right things as a client to get it sold efficiently (most notably a proper pricing strategy) and faster than less expensive homes… how could a higher $ commission be justified. Definitely an archaic system… just inefficient. There is easy math for this.

      2. condodweller

        at 10:56 am

        I agree the commission model has been not so much broken, but simply outdated. the 5% commission has been around since the 60’s IIRC and given that it’s a fixed percentage the $ amount of commission has gone through the roof given the astounding appreciation in house prices over the same time frame. It’s really a shame that a real estate agent can make more money than an average doctor or lawyer.

        1. Jennifer

          at 1:12 pm

          Not sure why that is a shame. a good real estate agent, plumber, electrician, carpenter, any salesperson, etc. can all make more than an average doctor or lawyer. Good for them.

          1. Geoff

            at 5:31 pm

            Err.. the “average” realtor doesn’t make more than the average doctor. Don’t be ridiculous.

  4. Appraiser

    at 10:06 am

    BREAKING:

    “The Bank of Canada today lowered its target for the overnight rate by 50 basis points to 1 ¼ percent.”https://www.bankofcanada.ca/2020/03/fad-press-release-2020-03-04/

      1. Chris

        at 10:13 am

        “The Canadian central bank cut its overnight rate by 50 basis points to 1.25 per cent, as widely expected, in the face of rising fears around the rapid spread of COVID-19.”

        Is the Bank of Canada over sensationalizing the pandemic as well?

        1. Appraiser

          at 10:16 am

          Nope. But they fully recognize that it is over-sensationalized.

          1. Chris

            at 10:29 am

            Please share a quote where the Bank of Canada expresses that sentiment.

            “However, COVID-19 represents a significant health threat to people in a growing number of countries.” – BoC

            It seems more likely that you’re trying to pass off your own opinion as that of Stephen Poloz.

      2. Chris

        at 10:15 am

        “Before the outbreak, the global economy was showing signs of stabilizing, as the Bank had projected in its January Monetary Policy Report (MPR). However, COVID-19 represents a significant health threat to people in a growing number of countries. In consequence, business activity in some regions has fallen sharply and supply chains have been disrupted. This has pulled down commodity prices and the Canadian dollar has depreciated. Global markets are reacting to the spread of the virus by repricing risk across a broad set of assets, making financial conditions less accommodative. It is likely that as the virus spreads, business and consumer confidence will deteriorate, further depressing activity…

        It is becoming clear that the first quarter of 2020 will be weaker than the Bank had expected. The drop in Canada’s terms of trade, if sustained, will weigh on income growth. Meanwhile, business investment does not appear to be recovering as was expected following positive trade policy developments. In addition, rail line blockades, strikes by Ontario teachers, and winter storms in some regions are dampening economic activity in the first quarter.”

        – Bank of Canada, March 4, 2020

      3. J G

        at 5:35 pm

        Just because BoC cut by 50 basis points, doesn’t mean the banks will. This used to be given, but I recall last time the banks did not pass the entire rate cut. I guess the banks are just greedy *smh*

        1. J G

          at 5:49 pm

          Ok good news, then I think most lenders will follow. Recently was tempting to convert from variable to fixed, but glad I didn’t do that.

    1. Long Time Realtor

      at 11:52 am

      Still waiting for the major banks to reduce their prime lending rates…

      1. J G

        at 5:37 pm

        Might not get the entire 50 basis points, Big 5 banks have not been doing well in recently are looking for revenue any way they can.

        1. Kramer

          at 10:52 am

          My variable rate mortgage went down 50pts on RBC’s system/online by the first time I checked. Well done RBC!!!!

  5. Kyle

    at 10:18 am

    I have a bit of a different take than you David,

    Letter 1, i think this Agent might be too busy with “more important” clients, as opposed to too lazy. In my experience i don’t necessarily want to work with the biggest name Agents when buying, as some focus on volume of deals rather than level of service devoted to each deal and some seem to prioritize their time/energy on what maximizes their pay out. My priorities in hiring a buyer Agent are knowledge of the market, good at negotiating and availability and desire to get things done.

    Letter 2, I’m not sure i would generalize across the GTA, i think staging has become location/market specific. In the core, homes must be staged perfectly to get top dollar. Compromising here to save a few bucks would be a mistake. But outside of the core, i think there are many siutations where good enough (i.e. decluttered, clean, obviously broken things fixed) is good enough.

    Letter 3, I agree that every Agent should know every area, if a cab driver can memorize every street in this City, there’s no excuse for an Agent not to know price ranges, demographics, schools, amenities, etc of at least 50 neighbourhoods. However i agree with Ed, i think it’s perfectly reasonable to expect a commission break if you buy and sell with the same Agent. In my experience, i’ve used top Agents who have offered me this.

    1. Chris

      at 9:39 am

      Add the Prime Minister to appraiser’s list of those guilty of over-sensationalizing COVID-19:

      “The Bank of Canada slashed a key interest rate Wednesday in a bid to blunt the economic impact of the spread of COVID-19 even as Prime Minister Justin Trudeau warned that a slowdown is already taking hold.

      “We are currently seeing an impact on the global economy,” Trudeau said Wednesday, citing disrupted supply chains because of the virus’ impact in China and a downturn in travel and tourism.

      “We’re seeing a slowdown,” the prime minister said during a visit to Saint-Jérôme, Que.”

      https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2020/03/04/justin-trudeau-warns-that-canadas-economy-is-taking-a-hit-from-spread-of-coronavirus.html

      1. Bal

        at 10:00 am

        I think media is just making a big deal of this virus….

        1. Chris

          at 10:05 am

          The media are reporting the statements of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Bank of Canada Governor Stephen Poloz, Chair of the US Federal Reserve Jerome Powell, etc.

          It remains to be seen the health impacts that the virus has; nobody knows if it will continue to spread at a similar or faster rate, will taper off, if we will develop a vaccine, if it will slow as the weather warms, or what exactly will transpire.

          What is no longer up for debate is the negative economic impact that government policies, aimed at slowing the virus’ spread, will have.

          1. Chris

            at 10:22 am

            Don’t get me wrong Bal, I don’t know how this is going to play out anymore than any other casual observer.

            But given the reaction from central bankers and leaders, it seems they’re preparing for a significant economic impact. Rather than celebrating a 50 basis points rate cut as an impetus to take on greater debt, perhaps we should consider why exactly Poloz/Powell felt the economy was in need of that much stimulus?

    2. Chris

      at 10:41 am

      Add Governor Gavin Newsom and the State of California to appraiser’s list of those guilty of over-sensationalizing COVID-19:

      “Gov. Gavin Newsom declared a state of emergency over the novel coronavirus after a California man died after falling ill with the virus while on a cruise ship.

      Officials are trying to locate hundreds of other Californians who disembarked from the Grand Princess ship in San Francisco last month after a trip to Mexico.”

      https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-04/los-angeles-county-declares-coronavirus-emergency-6-new-cases

  6. M

    at 9:39 am

    “I believe in subject matter experts, and I believe in specialization. I’ve talked about this on my blog many times, in many regards.”

    “I’m of the opinion that today’s modern agent needs to know every area, plain and simple. Perhaps not in the GTA, but personally, I can transact anywhere in the central core and feel like an expert. The so-called “area expert” is now a dinosaur.”

    “I believe in specialists, except me, because I know everything.”
    -David Flemming

    1. Not Harold

      at 2:26 pm

      You used to need to play tennis/golf with the right person to get listings or even know which houses were available.

      Now you can be more in touch with a wider area and the boundaries of where any given type of buyer will look has expanded as the city has grown.

      So whereas you’d once have been only a Leaside person like a certain someone whose face is omnipresent, you can be a central core person. I’d want the same agent to be able source me properties in C2, C3, C4, C09, C10, and C12. And allow for some bleeding on the edges of those areas and certain areas of special interest (BWV/Kingsway, Leslieville..) that are getting many of the same buyers (or people who are priced out of those areas – you say you want a Moore Park 4 bedroom how about a 3 bedroom here).

      I would definitely get a specialist for Oakville, Mississauga Road, or Aurora, despite DF’s claims.

  7. condodweller

    at 10:47 am

    A bit late to the party, but I wanted to chime in with my opinion regarding area knowledge. I would agree in principal that an agent should know most areas in the GTA and local knowledge should not matter. With the exception of downtown condos or any area where there is a concentrated number of condos.

    Extensive local knowledge of pertinent information on condos is key. To be able to screen the top condos from hundreds or possibly thousands of buildings based on important criteria like management fees, financial status, law suits etc. would be difficult if not impossible for someone who hasn’t regularly transacted in those buildings.

    To me it would be invaluable to have an agent who knows the best buildings without any issues to narrow down the search or even to wait out a listing in a good building rather than just show me currently available stock and try to get me to buy one of them.

    I don’t think, in fact I know, that an out of town agent would have proper knowledge of downtown condos to competently recommend a building never mind a unit in a specific building.

    Sure a large enough brokerage might compile this data to allow their agents to screen from but I’d be surprised if anybody did this because you know, it would be time consuming and require a bit of effort.

Back To Comments