Sometimes I think that by writing blogs like these, I save myself a ton of time.
I spend hours on the stats-based blogs, from inputting the data, to analyzing it, formatting, creating images, and then writing the blog posts themselves.
The “stories” blogs always feel like they’ll be quick writes, but brevity isn’t my strong suit, and I’m very detailed, so they end up over 3,000 words sometimes!
Then come the photo blogs, like this one, and like Tuesday’s, which make for quick reads, but having spent several hours accumulating all these photos, now I realize these are anything but quick.
Truth be told, I saved several hundred photos of home offices, wine cellars, gyms, pools, rec-rooms, and even the odd hydraulic car-lift, thinking that perhaps these would come in handy one day.
Well, that day is today.
I had fun with the blog on Tuesday about home offices, and I wanted to take a look at yet another unique feature of houses in Toronto: wine cellars.
Most of us will never own a home with a wine cellar, but since when did people stop looking at photos of things they’ll never own? Half of the regular TRB readers are real estate enthusiasts who, despite having bought a home last week, last year, or ten years ago, are obsessed with continuing to look at real estate!
One of my very best friends emails me all the time with “Did you see that sale?” or “How do they expect to get that price?”
When it comes to wine cellars, it’s not my forte, and that’s for two reasons: 1) I don’t really drink wine, 2) I don’t sell a ton of houses with wine cellars.
I mean when you think about it, not many $975,000, 2-bed, 2-bath semi-detached houses have room for wine cellars. While I do a handful of luxury sales every year, they’re not my speciality, and I’ve sold a lot of houses in the $2-3M range that do not have wine cellars. In fact, I’d say most of them do not.
So in the context of today’s blog, my opinion means equally as much, or as little, as yours does.
Where do I start?
Well, I suppose I would ask why one chooses to have a wine cellar in their home.
You would think the answer is obvious: because they like wine.
But the styles and locations of wine cellars, in my opinion, lead me to conclude that some people value showing off their wine more than anything else.
For example, I give you the following:
This is not the most functional way to store wine. Not even close.
This is actually a nice way to display wine, and since it happens to be in an open-concept space between what looks like the dining room and the kitchen, once again, it would lead me to believe that this is about showing off your wine bottles, and effectively having them double as art.
That shelf, or cabinet, or………wire-suspension system (?) isn’t functional, doesn’t allow for the most amount of wine storage, and probably is subject to more failure and breakage than your typical wooden shelves in a basement cupboard, so alas, many wine storage areas are for showing off.
That’s why, perhaps, we see so many wine cabinets in kitchens.
As an aside, does a wine cellar have to be in the lower level?
The short answer is, yes, a “cellar” is defined as a room below the ground floor of a building. So we’ll get to wine cellars in a moment, but let’s first continue that thought of “wine on display.”
Here’s an example:
This is more of a wine cabinet, and it’s really about showing off your wine, and using the bottles as art, than it is about keeping cases of your favourite wine to properly age them.
Or this one:
That’s a corner cabinet, in between the family room and the kitchen.
The wine bottles, behind glass, look like pieces of art.
And as a guy who is sitting in his office, typing on his keyboard, with fourteen swords, daggers, and knives from around the world on the shelf behind him, I can tell you that I know what it is to collect and to display.
Here’s the room from another angle:
That’s not about storage. That’s about display.
Same with this one:
This one is even more about display, since the shelves take up about 1/3 of the kitchen!
Look at the size of this!
That’s excessive.
This might be more than a third; this might be one half.
Now at this juncture, my question to you folks is: do you NEED to keep 200 bottles of wine in the kitchen?
What’s wrong with having a couple of bottles in the kitchen, with the wine “cellar” downstairs?
Or, if you want to keep the wine closer, how about the wine closet in the hallway adjacent to the kitchen like this:
I just sold a house in the $3.5-$4M range with a wine closet such as this, and the funny part is, we had previously looked at a house with a massive wine cellar (at grade, so I dont’ know what to call this – a wine room?) that was prominently featured in the dining area, and we didn’t like it.
But this wine closet? It was a happy medium!
–
Now what about having the wine closet/room/cellar at the bottom of the basement stairs, like this:
Now that is something most folks can agree on, especially if it’s going to be this large.
A wine closet in the hall near the kitchen need only really hold 1/4 of what you see in the photo above.
Here’s another version:
And another:
And another, although this one is massive!
So this room above begs the question: how big should your wine cellar be?
I suppose it depends on the size of your house, but I would also ask: what’s with all that wasted space in front of the glass?
Do you want your wine cellar to be spacious?
–
How about a couple of wine fails before we move on?
This is a fail, I’m sorry. I just don’t see the need for this:
Then we have the wine room that is being called a wine cellar:
Placing two wood barrels, with crappy Costco wine, and what looks like cheese, with a few wine glasses, in front of a couple of wine shelves affixed to the wall, does not make this a wine cellar.
This is a bit closer, but still not a true “cellar” in my opinion:
That’s like a cold room turned into wine storage.
Then we have the following, which looks more like a wine panic room than anything else:
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Okay so what must a room look like in order to be a wine cellar?
This is a start:
This is its own room, there’s storage actually built-in or affixed to the walls (as opposed to a few IKEA racks on the ground), and this guy has a built-in “tasting station” behind a glass door, so I’ll give it a pass.
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Alright, so are we finally ready for some cool wine cellars?
Let’s roll…
This is its own temperature-controlled room, behind double-glass doors, with storage for about 500 bottles, I just don’t know if I like the design:
Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer something like this:
I do not like this:
That’s more of a booze cellar, complete with shelves made to fit bottles of Drambuie. I mean, if you’re designing your booze fallout shelter around Drambuie, then you’re not really a wine fan, per se.
–
How about a few empty wine cellars just to get the imagination going?
Meh. Boring.
You could have told me this was a walk-in closet, and I might have believed you.
How about…
This looks dated.
Wow, I can’t believe I said that.
A dated wine cellar. Talk about first-world problems!
How about this one:
That’s huge, and also pretty. But empty.
It’s tough to really visualize without bottles.
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Is this one too boring?
I feel like I’m a stockroom at the LCBO.
–
Is this one too pink?
Yes.
Yes it is.
Let’s move on. I can’t believe that one made my final cut…
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Can a wine cellar have windows?
Or did somebody just wait for their teenage son to move out so they could turn his room into a wine cellar?
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Is this one too busy?
The irony with that comment is – we want our wine cellars to have room for 2,000 bottles, but we only want to display 600, otherwise it looks like the photo above.
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Alright, the following are my “Top Ten” in no particular order.
These combine certain elements of what I think a wine cellar should have, including, but not limited to:
Wooden shelves, brick walls, tile floors, pot lights, wine jugs, wine barrels, wine boxes, cheese wheels, booze bottles, and anything Italy-related.
For discussion purposes, I’ll number these.
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)
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#10 looks the coolest. But it doesn’t seem to store that much wine!
#8 looks the biggest. But it’s actually a bit intimidating.
I have to think the winner is #7.
But I’m happy to discuss!
Francesca
at 7:09 am
Wow some pretty cool photos of very elaborate and expensive looking wine cellars. I like a few in your top ten David. However, whatever happened to just a simple concrete basement room like the Italian “Cantina” where you can store both wine and other items that need to maintain a cold temperature. My grandparents country house in Italy had a huge cantina in the basement and I have several Italian friends here who have a similar cold room for storage. Of course these are not rooms that you would ever bring guests to see. They remain like a secret room. In the case of these modern wine cellars I think there is very much a pretentious side to it…to basically show off that your house is fancy enough to have a designated room for wine. For big time wine connoisseurs or fans it may be worth it but I don’t think it’s a huge selling feature.
Izzy Bedibida
at 9:03 am
I helped dad build a “Semi-Cantina” years ago. Mom still uses it. I store my recent batch of cabernet sauvignion/petit syrah blend there.
I bring a few bottles at a time to my condo where I store them on a small wine rack I put in when I redid my kitchen to increase storage space.
Not Harold
at 8:08 am
I don’t like the big displays since they’re not great for storage, make your consumption conspicuous to all visitors, and are most likely to be expensively dated quickly.
A wine fridge in the kitchen/butler’s pantry is more useful with more storage in the basement.
For the cellar it should really have its own temperature and humidity control, inventory tracking system, biometric/keypad access, and high security door (no glass). No point of going to the expense if it can’t age investment grade wine and that needs to be protected against thieves, teenagers, and the ignorant. A tasting area is nice but really hard to fit in most basement floor plans of even quite large houses. Better to use the space in multifunction areas like a games room with a side bar and have the cellar maximize storage.
I like your picks of favourites, though the first empty cellar that you didn’t like very much would also be nice.
condodweller
at 4:55 pm
Security is a good point for those who have more than a few bottles worth $100+. i find it interesting when I hear of stories where a waiter accidentally serves a thousand dollar bottle and the patrons never notice the difference.
Christopher
at 8:12 am
I like the wine cellars posted towards the end because they look like proper storage areas that are cool and dark. The wine “displays” are nice, but I wouldn’t want a large one in a living area that gets light exposure and warmer temperature unless I know I will be drinking the wine within a year or so. The small displays are ideal because they keep a small selection of bottles close at hand that can realistically be consumed before starting to go bad.
Izzy Bedibida
at 10:32 am
I agree. Many of the photos are of elaborate kitchen displays. I would like to see how this would be done in a small condo.
Katie
at 9:36 am
David you still owe us a photo of your home office! ????
Appraiser
at 9:55 am
Yeah, since the cat is now out of the bag and all.
Graham
at 2:49 pm
Better make sure to include all the swords, daggers, and knives in the photo.
David studied the blade.
Kyle
at 3:13 pm
I used to love the idea of having a big wine cellar. But after owning a wine fridge, i soon came to the realization that i could never manage to keep it stocked. The wine was always consumed way before any real inventory could build up. If i had a wine cellar it would probably be empty most of the time.
condodweller
at 4:51 pm
I didn’t comment on the offices but I would have the same comment regarding wine cellars. The number one criteria for me would be function. I would only want a separate dedicated room for an office if I conducted business there by either seeing clients or video/teleconferencing with clients etc.
WRT wine, the obvious use cases are storing wine/making wine/aging wine/tasting wine/displaying wine. Which of these I engage in, and to what extent would drive the need for a cellar/display/fridge for me.
As it happens I’m a casual wine drinker and I store my wine at the LCBO. I use the Toyota/Walmart just in time delivery system.
When I think of a wine cellar I first think of wine producing and second of wine storage. I believe initial wine cellars were more for function as old homes/estates didn’t have modern air conditioning. I’m sure they were the best way to control the environment for making/storing wine with minimal cost. In a modern home just about any room can be turned into a “wine cellar” though a basement would probably be the most efficient as they tend to be naturally cooler than the rest of the house.
I find large display cases are a waste of space as a small unique holder that can hold a few bottles to keep them handy which can double as an art piece is probably all most people would need. If you drink a lot of wine an investment in a wine fridge might make sense.
WRT making/aging wine it’s a subject I know very little about and wouldn’t presume to comment. All I know is that some people I know who make their own wine at home tend to do it in the garage or a shed, not in the house.
Not Harold
at 11:23 am
Modern homes are actually really bad for wine storage.
We like temperatures that are warmer than is ideal for long term storage and gentle aging of wine (Scotch ages for 20+ years while rum & tequila age for 6 months to 3 ish years, thanks to temperature differences in warehouses). We also like our air to be much drier than is ideal for storage of wine that uses natural cork. Together this makes a modern centrally heated house a really bad place to store wine (or potatoes, onions, etc…)
Better, more expensive wines typically need several years or more to mature, but the LCBO almost always only sells them very close to when they are bottled (there are some well aged expensive wines in the biggest stores and some areas like Rioja release wines only after substantial aging, but that’s a very, very small sample). You also generally are buying them by the case from the LCBO or an importer. When you’re buying in multiples of 12 that are not pleasant to drink for 5+ years it’s rather easier to leave them in the cellar vs the bottle of Jacob’s Creek that you picked up at the LCBO beside Union Station.
On the office – really depends if you are a worker bee or if you’re a business owner/executive/lawyer/doctor/etc. Lots of people will have an office not just at home but at the place in Muskoka, place in Florida/Caribbean, and place in Colorado/BC/Switzerland. It also becomes much more critical once you have kids.
When you live alone or with a partner it’s easy to negotiate quiet space/time and you’re unlikely to be randomly interrupted.. From the second you bring them home from the hospital you need a quiet place with a door that closes and locks. Kids attract more kids and then there are also random adults wandering around thanks to pot lucks, fundraising committee meetings, and parties for brownies troop, swim team, etc etc.
The dining table office thus no longer becomes tenable.
condodweller
at 6:02 pm
What I meant was that in modern homes one can easily install equipment to control the temperature/humidity in a room/closet located anywhere in the house vs a hundred years ago where one likely only had a fireplace to heat the home and cold storage/cellar to keep things cool.
Geoff
at 2:14 pm
Jerry: I can’t stand anyone who had a wine cellar growing up.
Grandma: I had a wine cellar!
Marina
at 3:44 am
I thought 7 was the best too, but I think it’s because it’s one if the smallest.
I know one person who has a wine cellar. He’s actually a wine fan who is not totally pretentious (I know, rare!). And his cellar is more of a temperature controlled closet. But it’s not for display, it’s to keep his wine in great condition.
With many of these, I picture some total snob who will make us stand in his whine cellar while he talks about every bottle like it’s his child, and when he finally lets us take a sip, he’ll talk for an hour about how we are doing it wrong.
Spencer
at 10:02 am
A wine cellar should say, “I collect wine”.
Too many of these say, “I make my own wine”.
emma
at 4:00 am
All wines we tasted were fantastic, but we settled on the Cab and a short walk down a shady limestone path to a multi-level covered deck overlooking the San Marcos River to enjoy watching folks tubing the river and the pleasant breezes.
Bal Syan
at 12:32 pm
HI there,
I custom design and build wine cellars here in Toronto for a lot of homes. They are all different depending on a persons collection and drinking patterns.
Every cellar also has its own different climate control system . True homes in Canada are not able to hold climate as the way a builder builds them. We engineer a room with enough insulation so that the room can hold the temperature inside.
Every person likes different types of racking. Diamonds in lower racking are the worst for holding wine. You never know what type of bottles you have and if they will sit properly without falling. Lowers are mainly used for Wood cases. Upper racking is best to have individual bottle slots. However many do other things there for example cable tension or metal pegs.
Wine cellar is a personal preference. I dont have one and dont think i ever will, but i will keep designing them for anyone who wants one.
rehman
at 9:56 am
Hello
I meant was that in modern homes one can easily install equipment to control the temperature/humidity in a room/closet located anywhere in the house vs a hundred years ago where one likely only had a fireplace to heat the home and cold storage/cellar to keep things cool.
Dung
at 6:19 am
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