Bully Bedlam!

Business

9 minute read

February 22, 2021

Have you ever called somebody, and upon them answering the phone, you start talking and just go, go, go, until suddenly, they interject and say, “Sorry, I”m on the other line, can I call you back?”

How embarrassing!  Right?  Had you known they were waiting to cut you loose, you wouldn’t have rambled on and on!  But that person didn’t want to be rude and just interrupt you, so they let you say your piece.

On Saturday morning, I received a text message from a client that said, “David, can you please call me when you have a moment?”

Good timing, I thought, since I had to call her, and inform her that the property she wanted to see had sold the night before after only five hours on the market.

But when she answered the phone, I didn’t have a chance to tell her about the sale before she began, “We were thinking about this house, and it really, really checks a lot of boxes, we’re super excited…” and continued to describe her emotions for a home that she would never be able to see, let alone purchase.

“Gotta stop you right there,” I chimed in.  “The house sold last night.”

Then silence.

Those silences are quite common right nowadays.  They last about six seconds, during which time the person first re-hears what I said, then processes it, then realizes the repercussions, and only then provides an exasperation of some sort.

“Well that fucking sucks,” my client said, although I’m double-checking my memory back to see if she swore, and I’d better be sure, because she reads this blog.

The situation deserved a swear-word.  In fact, it deserved more than just one.

This house came onto the market on Friday in the late afternoon, and by the time my client and I had touched base about it, little did we know, it had already sold.  There were showings on this property for every half-hour time slot until the 9pm cut-off, and a buyer had made an offer sight-unseen.  Can’t get a showing?  No problem!   Just buy the house from looking at the photos.  It’s only two-million dollars!

As I wrote last week, bully offers are quite prevalent in our market right now, and you’d almost have to expect that any decent house is going to attract a pre-emptive bid.  Will that house or condo actually sell before offer night?  Good question, and it’s one you have to ask yourself as a buyer if you don’t want to lose out.

However, and this is a big ‘however,’ if you’re a buyer out there, you also need to know that your agent knows how to participate in this really tough market climate.  At the risk of throwing an overwhelming majority of the real estate industry under the bus (for a change…) I’d like to divulge that a lot of buyer agents out there have absolutely no clue what they’re doing.

I currently have two listings, each of which will end up with over one-hundred showings, and each of these listings has solicited about thirty inquiries either by email or on the phone.  Call me a jerk for saying this, but I can tell within ten seconds of speaking to an agent whether or not they have any hope of buying this property with their clients.  It’s a tough market, folks.  I can’t possibly explain this for those of you who aren’t involved and are just looking.  But really, truly, this is as tough a market for buyers right now as ANY I have ever seen.  So when a buyer agent calls me and asks where the garbage chute is located, I’m sorry, but I know this agent won’t be in the running…

Last week, I had a few interesting phone calls as far as bully offers are concerned.

You, the readers, who are likely not as jaded and cynical as I am, might side with the person on the other end of the line, but that’s fine.  You’re just a more optimistic, kinder, better person than I am, and you like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

But I don’t.  I can’t.  I simply do not have the time.

I’m a real estate agent and my loyalties are to the seller.  It’s not within my purview to teach uneducated agents how the industry works.

An agent called me late on Wednesday night and said, “We saw your listing at XX Street, we want to do a bully offer.”

I said, “Great,” and then waited for a response, but none came.  Just silence.

Eventually, the silence was filled by an almost comical, “Sooooo…….?”

You know where this is going, right?  I feel like I’ve written this exact blog post before.  In fact, I know I have.

“So, bring me something, and I’m happy to present it to the seller,” I told the other agent.

That’s when a pronounced sigh could be heard on the other end of the line, although I don’t think it was directed at me, but rather just an admission on behalf of this agent that she didn’t really know what to do next.

“I don’t work this area,” she told me in a rare moment of honesty.  “I’ve never done a bully offer before.  I’m hoping you can give me some guidance.”

This is where you, the readers, often suggest that either, a) I should help this agent, because it’s what a good person would do, or b) I need to work on behalf of my seller, and that means coaching this buyer agent through a process she’s not familiar with in order to produce an offer.

The truth is: I know from experience that this agent is not going to have the winning ticket, so there’s no point in doing her job for her, even if it meant “working on behalf of my client.”  I had already received two bully offers on the listing at this point, both of which were not offers my seller was going to entertain.  So did I really need to guide this agent’s hand to produce a third?

“You need to discuss this with your manager,” I told the agent.  “Call your manager, and he or she can walk you through the process.”

Amazingly, she said, “We don’t really have a manager; there’s nobody I can really ask about this sort of stuff.  We’re more of an online, sort of work-at-home firm,” she explained.  And that’s surely a topic for another day: how the business models in real estate are helping to breed agents who have no clue what they’re doing, but I’ll stop short of making this into an advertisement for a traditional brokerage model.

So, I decided perhaps I could turn this into a teachable moment after all, and I said, “Well, then that tells you all you need to know about your firm, doesn’t it?  There are a lot of other business models out there, and you might benefit from looking into a brokerage with on-site management, new agent training, mentorship, ongoing learning, and more.”  And then, I told her I had to take another call, which was true, and that I would look at an offer if she brought one.

Call me callous, if you want.  But then I’ll tell you to quit your job and go work for Greenpeace.

Part of the reason I took this path was because, only moments earlier, I had taken a similar call, and I spent a considerable amount more time on this one…

Imagine the exact same preamble as the call I just described, only this time, the agent asked me, “What do I need to do?”

Being a little fresher, and feeling a little nicer, I decided I would play.  Not wasting any time, I got directly to the point and said, “You need four things: a bank draft, an unconditional offer, a price that my seller simply cannot turn down, and a long enough irrevocable period that I don’t piss off the other sixty agents who have shown the property.”

What happened next was a systematic, point-by-point breakdown of the advice I had offered, but that also served as a systematic, point-by-point explanation of why this agent, and many like him, are unprepared to work in this market.

“Well, I can’t get a deposit cheque for you,” he said.  “It’s 7:30pm and the banks are going to close soon.”

I wanted to explain to him that if he was a good agent, he’d have already told his clients to get a bank draft in advance.  That’s what good agents do.  But I didn’t have time, because he continued…

“And I can’t bring you an unconditional offer because, obviously, we would need our clients’ lawyer to look at the status certificate, and to be honest, I don’t know that they’re comfortable moving forward without their bank approving this sale.”

Again, I wanted to suggest that a good agent may already be familiar with this building and the finances, and/or have downloaded a copy of the status certificate from MLS, where I always upload it.  I would also have added that there’s no such thing as “a bank approving the sale,” which is just jargon.  Banks don’t even do pre-approvals anymore.  They just tell you what you can afford, and they never send out appraisers until after you’ve purchased.

But again, he was on a roll…

“As for the price, I would need some direction from you on this, as my client doesn’t want to overpay.”

This was amazing for so many reasons.  First of all, since when is it my job to tell another agent’s client what to offer?  Secondly, why would I help the buyer avoid over-paying?  Why is this on me?  Aren’t I in the exact opposite position?  My cynical side says that a buyer with this particular agent is never going to overpay, since that buyer will never be successful with an offer in this market.

Then he completed the quad-fecta by telling me…

“We’d give you like, an hour for this offer.  We don’t want to risk anybody else coming in and competing.”

Of course!  Ignore the scales and the direction each side is tipping, why don’t you?

This is so prevalent in today’s market!  Buyer agents act like they have more than just a leg to stand on; many think they’re atop the goddam CN Tower.  I had an agent tell me on Sunday, “We may not come back on offer night, you know,” after he sent in a pre-emptive that wasn’t worth the paper it was printed on.

We don’t want to risk anybody else coming in and competing.  Well of course you don’t!  But you don’t have that luxury in this market, and you don’t have any leverage to avoid that scenario.

Let’s say, for argument’s sake, that this agent did have a bank draft in hand, and his offer was unconditional, and the price was way, way beyond anything in the realm of possibilities in this crazy 2021 market (which can’t be defined, since it’s seemingly infinite…), then, and only then could I consider entertaining a one-hour irrevocable, but I would have to personally call every single agent that showed the property, after emailing them all first.

But none of that happened, since this guy was talking nonsense all along.

“I can’t work with a pre-emptive offer in one hour; the other agents who showed this property would eat me for lunch,” I told him.

“Well, that’s your problem,” he said, simply ensuring I would never look for his face in a crowd of buyer agents on offer night.

Now, aside from the idea that I refuse to sully my relationship with sixty buyer agents, which sounds self-serving in the immediate short-term, but goes a long way for every other buyer and seller client I work with in the long-run, let’s talk about this idea of who’s problem it is.

My problem, so says this other agent.

My problem.

Only, it’s not my problem.  I have no problem.  I have, not a care in the world!

For, you see, I have a listing.  That’s what I have.

And those other agents all have buyers.

I work with both buyers and sellers, FYI.  But I’m merely proving a point in this instance.

Sixty buyer agents out there, and only one will get the sale of this property.   And yet, agents like the one I’m describing above say things like, “That’s your problem,” not realizing who has the upper hand here.  They’re absolutely oblivious!

I sold a house last week and I spent five full days kissing the listing agent’s ass.  Two phone calls per day, without fail.  Talking business, talking life, talking marriage and kids.  And on offer night, when I had the second-highest offer, who do you think he looked for?

All over the city right now, there are buyer agents who are running around like chickens with their heads cut off.  They don’t know which way is up, and which way is down.  They don’t know how to work with bully offers, and when they attempt to present them, they actually make their situation worse by getting in their own way.

Far be it for me to tell any buyer or buyer agent how to structure their own offering, but if you want to be successful with a bully offer, there are prerequisites.  Complain about the process, complain about the market, complain about prices, but don’t complain about what works and what doesn’t.  I didn’t invent this.  I’m merely trying to tell you how long to make your cord when you bungee-jump off that bridge, so I’m shocked when people fault me for it.

If you’re a buyer, you simply have to look at things from the seller’s perspective before you act, otherwise you’re dreaming.

As I asked another agent today during yet another teachable moment, “Do you think we won’t see this price again on offer night?  Do you think there’s no chance we see this price?  Like, none?  Because if there is a chance, or better yet, a certainty, then why would we accept this bully offer?”

I further explained that even if our downside was, say, $10,000, our upside on offer night could be $100,000.  He and his buyers simply must consider this before they submit their bully offer, unless their plan is simply to run around the city making lowball bully offers to see if they catch anybody napping, which is really the only justification for the naivety that’s displayed out there right now.

Every time I write a blog post like this, readers comment and say, “David, why do you care?  What are you complaining for?  Doesn’t the presence of poor agents make your job easier?  Would you be where you are today if not for all these agents?”

Great questions, and very true.  All of it.

But believe it or not, I have a heart, and I feel awful for all the buyers out there with inadequate representation.  They will simply never buy.  They can’t.  Their agents won’t let them.

I’m sorry, but when an agent sends me a text message saying, “What is your email address?” I’m pretty confident that this agent won’t have the winning bid on offer night.  For the record – every agent’s email address is prominently featured on the MLS listing, but there’s also this thing called Google.  The questions I receive, and the discussions I have, consistently leave me feeling bad for buyers out there.

And the worst part is: the buyers never know.  They just keep reading the headlines about the hot market, and they lick their wounds, and lament how tough it is.

But do those buyers know that their agents have no idea how bully offers work in today’s market?

How could they?

But like anything else, it’s up to the consumer of a good or service to determine the product, brand, or service-provider, whether they’re buying running shoes online or taking their car into an auto-body shop to be repaired.  They may never know if they actually received value for their time and money, whether that value is absolute or relative.

It pains me to see buyers out there today having a tough time, because so much of it is avoidable.

And come Mid-May, how many of them will still be out there, pounding the pavement?

Written By David Fleming

David Fleming is the author of Toronto Realty Blog, founded in 2007. He combined his passion for writing and real estate to create a space for honest information and two-way communication in a complex and dynamic market. David is a licensed Broker and the Broker of Record for Bosley – Toronto Realty Group

Find Out More About David Read More Posts

Post a Comment

Your email address will not be published.

18 Comments

  1. Sunshine

    at 8:49 am

    As the client mentioned at the beginning of the blog, I can confirm that I absolutely did drop the F bomb, and several more in my head when you told me the the place had sold in less than 5 hours. Its going to be a fun house hun this spring!

    1. CM

      at 10:34 am

      Very best of luck!

  2. Ed

    at 9:36 am

    Where’s the garbage chute?
    I think this is an excellent question. If I’m a buyer I do not want to even look at a unit that is adjacent to a garbage chute. So if I can eliminate the unit in question it saves everybody’s time.

  3. Daniel

    at 10:08 am

    David: can you explain today’s choice of photo? I think I understand but I just want to hear you say it.

    1. David Fleming

      at 1:56 pm

      @ Daniel

      I was thinking “offer” first but that’s boring, so I was thinking “bedlam, chaos, mayhem,” and wanted to include people. A packed street came to mind. I started thinking “crowd” or “crowded.” Then, voila! A picture of a crowded sheep pen. “Sheep.” Hmmm……buyers….agents….

      So yeah, I think you understand the meaning, but I didn’t START there.

  4. A.S.

    at 10:34 am

    Hey David – I can see your frustration oozing out of the edges of my monitor. I deal with similar stuff at work. Lately, whenever I find myself traveling down these mental tunnels of despair, I simply remind myself that this is the reason I get paid this much for what I do and if everyone else was similarly competent, then market economics would dictate that I would be paid less or out of a job. This turns the feelings of frustration into feelings of thankfulness that these people exist.

  5. Appraiser

    at 11:05 am

    Don’t look now but 416 condos are at 41% over asking (was 33% last week and 26% 2 weeks ago) as per Scott Ingram CPA, CA

    “This last week is to-date (I go Monday to Sunday), but 41% does seem to show a heating up in the 416 condo market.

    Not claiming it’s a be-all-and-end-all metric, but saw a unit sell over asking last week on day it came out and it wasn’t even holding offers, so it made me look. ” https://twitter.com/areacode416?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

    1. J G

      at 1:45 pm

      Asking price doesn’t matter, you came to that conclusion yourself 5 years ago.

      416 Condo still dog compared to stocks.

  6. Pragma

    at 11:33 am

    A little off topic but that’s where most of these comments end up anyways:

    I try to detach emotions from any RE analysis but I understand that’s difficult to do(for some more than others!). But lets look at some numbers that makes me think that this most recent rally is creating the environment that might pull the rug out in the not so distant future.

    Construction has absolutely exploded. Housing starts are now running at an annualized pace of 240k, and rising. And anecdotally everyone seems to be rushing to every corner of Ontario to buy a pre-construction home.

    Our population grows by 1.5%(natural+immigration). On 37m that creates 555k new Canadians.

    Canada Average household size is 2.9 according to statscan. (My bias would be that new immigrants would be even higher).

    555k/2.9 = 191k annual household formation.

    191k demand 2.9. That S/D balance is likely to be even more imbalanced.

    1. Pragma

      at 11:38 am

      I don’t know why my previous comments just glitched like that. The rest:

      191k demand 2.9. That S/D imbalance gets even more imbalanced. This looks like a repeat of what was happening in the late 80’s/early 90’s

  7. Marty

    at 12:32 pm

    BEST LINE: “As for the price, I would need some direction from you on this, as my client doesn’t want to overpay.”

    1. Marty

      at 12:34 pm

      Oh ya and Daft Punk is (are?) breaking up. I’ hope you’ll cover this in the next blog post.

    2. Caprice

      at 3:55 pm

      Other gems:
      “I have no problem. I have, not a care in the world!”
      “Buyer agents act like they have more than just a leg to stand on; many think they’re atop the goddam CN Tower.”
      Classic, David.

  8. Celeste Brav

    at 2:51 pm

    David, your a Saint

  9. Lesley Barron

    at 7:29 pm

    Brilliant article!!
    My daughter and son in law just bought a house BECAUSE OF a sharp smart real estate agent!!

    1. Condodweller

      at 10:48 am

      I’m curious what the agent thought the “fair value” of the house was, and how much of a premium did he suggest in order to secure the deal? In 2017 it started with $100k and I heard stories of up to $300k premiums being paid prior to the pullback.

  10. Condodweller

    at 11:39 am

    There was an interesting Globe article last week:
    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/toronto/article-toronto-area-real-estate-is-back-to-full-on-madness/

    There was a 1100sqft Oshawa house with an asking price of $650,000 that sold for $802,000 with a most recent sale in 2018 for $200k.

    An interesting point made is people who are selling their Toronto home are blowing locals and other first-time buyers out of the water with their offers.

    What’s really interesting though is the agent noting that people don’t want droves going through their houses and are offering exclusive listings after they name their price they’d be willing to accept. The agent then finds a buyer through word of mouth. Here’s is proof that not everybody wants the most they can get for their house. Imagine that, providing an asking price you will actually accept. Of course, this still allows an intrepid listing agent to have his/her own “offer night” off the books.

    Of course there is an alternate method of doing this which I’m not going to share out of respect for David.

  11. Mike

    at 2:23 pm

    Fyi you’re incorrect on the ‘banks don’t approve the sale’ comment. In our current market, sure most people go in unconditional and the appraiser comes out after the fact but what do you think happens if said appraiser says ‘ no this property isn’t worth $1m it’s only worth $750k?’ the buyer needs to come up with the difference. So yes the bank still needs to approve the propertyvaluation at the purchase price, it’s just that people are gambling that they will because of the market conditions. Great article and points otherwise though. Enjoy your blog a lot.

Pick5 is a weekly series comparing and analyzing five residential properties based on price, style, location, and neighbourhood.

Search Posts