Monday Morning Quarterback: OREA’s Proposed Changes

Business

10 minute read

April 15, 2019

First world problems.

We know what they are, we know that we shouldn’t let them bother us, but we’re incapable of following our own advice.

First world problems; “A relatively trivial or minor problem or frustration (implying a contrast with serious problems such as those that may be experienced in the developing world).”

At this point in my life, I am absolutely, positively, unable to watch live sports.  The start times, combined with the time committment itself, means I have to watch everything on tape-delay, and fast-forward anything non-essential.  Being the rabid sports fan that I am, this is problematic.  First-world-problematic.

As lame as this sounds, golf is my favourite sport.  It’s probably tied with football, and like all Canadians, I’m a massive hockey fan (not as much anymore since a group of American businessmen stole the Canadian game and turned it into soccer on ice), but The Masters is, without a doubt, my favourite event to watch.

I was able to watch a good portion of The Masters on one of my monitors at work on Thursday, but I missed every section of action on Friday.

On Saturday, I was working all morning, all afternoon, and into the early evening.  But I had PVR’d The Masters, with hopes of getting home to watch it around 6:00pm, so long as nobody spoiled it for me.

Do you know how hard that is?

First world problems.

Ever since Pete almost ruined Canada vs. Belarus during the 2010 Winter Olympics and I overreacted by lighting his house on fire, my friends know not to message me during live sports.  Having said that, you can never be too careful!  So I texted my closest handful of friends, “Taping The Masters!  No Spoiler!”

I drove 45-minutes to Stouffville on Saturday, in complete silence.  No radio, no text messages.  Same thing on the way home.

In between putting my daughter to bed, eating dinner, and watching a movie with my wife, I was able to fly through Saturday’s coverage in about 90 minutes with the help of fast-forward.

Then came Sunday.

First world problems.

For those of you in the know, the weather in Augusta, Georgia on Sunday was threatening to ruin the tournament, so a decision was made to have the leaders tee off at 9:20am rather than the usual 2:30pm start time.

I was able to watch the first two hours before I had to head out on appointments, and that’s when things really got tricky.

Imagine trying to conduct business in the Toronto real estate market without checking your phone?  It’s impossible.  So imagine me, literally looking at texts and emails through a pinhole, ensuring any personal messages don’t make it all the way to my iris.

First world problems.

I finished my 3pm appointment, then headed to my Mom’s house where she had PVR’d The Masters for me.  However, her math was off, given the “Guide” reflected the scheduled programming for Sunday and not the actual programming, and she neglected to record the last half-hour.

My phone dinged, and dinged, and dinged.  And all the while, I cursed whoever that was, messaging me.

The TV went off while Tiger Woods was at (-14) and had two holes to play, and while I was about 92% certain that he was going to win, I wanted to witness the action myself.

I had my wife check my messages, and ensure I wasn’t missing anything important, but also ensure nobody spoiled the surprise for me.  And you know what?  My wife said that there were three people who would have done so.

First world problems.

I went home around 7pm, watched the last two holes, and saw what I deem to be the most incredible sports feat in a long, long time.  We can argue that later, but in my world, this is the best thing I’ve seen since Team Canada won gold in 2010.  It’s my favourite sports moment in a decade, no question, and other Tiger-fans will agree that this was absolutely indescribable.

So what’s my point, other than the obvious GO TIGER OMG TIGER!!

Well, perspective, I guess.  I spent so much time and energy on something seemingly so stupid, and I wish I would learn from that.  I wish we all would.

And then at the same time, I guess I realize that we don’t live our lives in a vaccum.  And we do live in the first world.

It’s a paradox that I dwell upon each and every day of the week.

Last week, we talked a lot about multiple offers and bully offers, and during the midst of some pretty heated discussions, the Ontario Real Estate Association dropped a bombshell that nobody saw coming.

The timing could not have been more ironic.

And had there been more time last week, we would have discussed this ad nauseam.

So at the risk of beating this horse to death, and spending far too much time on one topic when there’s a lot to talk about in the Toronto market, let’s look at the OREA press release:

 


 

 

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
April 8, 2019

ENDING Bully offers WILL GIVE ALL BUYERS A FAIR CHANCE AT OWNING A HOME, say Ontario REALTORS®

OREA responds to government consultation with 28 recommendations for raising professional standards and strengthening consumer protection

TORONTO, ON – In looking for ways to increase fairness in the home buying process, Ontario Realtors are recommending an end to “bully offers”, a practice that gives some buyers an unfair advantage when making an offer on a home. Released today, OREA’s Vision for a Modern REBBA: Getting to the Highest Professional Standards in North America outlines 28 recommendations for modernizing real estate rules and ensuring that the Realtor at your side during the biggest transaction of your life has the highest professional standards, training and modern tools in North America.

“If a home listing includes an offer date, that’s the date on which all offers should be considered; an offer made before that date, which is known as a pre-emptive, or ‘bully offer’, should not be allowed,” said Karen Cox, OREA President. “This will ensure that all interested buyers of a particular home get a fair shot at making an offer. For sellers, it means they will have a chance to work with their Realtor to carefully and thoughtfully consider all offers without feeling like they are in a pressure cooker.”

OREA’s Vision for a Modern REBBA also takes aim at escalation clauses, a provision that a buyer can use to beat competing offers by automatically topping any better offer with a previously stipulated amount.

“A clause that allows a buyer to automatically bump all other offers out of the running in a multiple offer situation makes for a very uneven playing field,” said Cox. “Further, for the escalation clause to kick-in, a Realtor must reveal private financial information such as the highest offer on a home to the buyer using the clause, which violates the Realtor Code of Ethics. Eliminating contradictory rules like this will strengthen consumer confidence in the Province’s real estate market.”

In transactions where real estate salespeople are caught breaching REBBA, OREA is calling for a process called disgorgement, which would force rule breakers to pay back any income they made by unethical means.

To view a copy of OREA’s Vision for a Modern REBBA, visit www.rebbareform.ca.

 


 

There’s so much to discuss here, but let me start from the very beginning.

The Ontario Real Estate Association has always been in charge of education, and up until about one year ago when it was announced that Humber College would be in charge of education moving forward, that’s all agents really knew of OREA.  Today, to be quite honest, most of us have no idea what OREA actually does.

OREA, and the people who run it, have basically reinvented themselves as a real estate lobbyist, and as evidenced by the verbiage above that reads, “Ontario Realtors are recommending an end to bully offers,” you can plainly see that OREA has decided to speak for us.

TREB does the same thing, however, and I will admit that at least OREA consults us.

Recall the blog I wrote back in February about OREA’s survey regarding multiple representation.

Unlike TREB, who is basically overseen by one single person, and a group of sixteen others who are supposed to tell that person what to do, but are really just told to be quiet, the Ontario Real Estate Association does seek our opinions from time to time.

I’ve personally sat with Tim Hudak to discuss the issues at hand in real estate, and I know that he has met with hundreds of agents in an effort to analyze the strengths and weaknesses of the industry, and find out what changes should be made.

What changes should be made, however, all depend on how recommendations are taken.  Because OREA can’t really do anything.  All they can do is lobby.

While I believe that many agents view bully offers as problematic, I would like to see where OREA’s data enables them to conclude, “Ontario Realtors are recommending an end to bully offers.”  I’ve always said, you can make numbers say anything you want.  So if OREA asked a simple question on a survey like, “Do you enjoy working with bully offers?”  And 51% of respondents said, “no,” does that enable them to make the claim that “Ontario Realtors are recommending an end to bully offers?”

I know, you guys don’t care.  This is of no concern to you, especially those of you that do want to see an end to bully offers.  But how we get to this point, like it or not, is important.  It underscores how much, or if real estate professionals want to make the industry better.

I for one am not necessarily convinced that eliminating bully offers would make the industry better, and I know I’ll take flak for that, but let me explain.

I don’t believe that in order to fix a problem, you have to eliminate the existence of that which makes a situation problematic.  Just imagine if everything in life worked that way.

Bully offers are an issue, I understand.

But to simply ban bully offers is merely a band-aid solution.

I’ve long argued that agents are the problem, not the tools at their disposal.

It is the agents that don’t understand bully offers, and either don’t know how to submit them (as I explained last week), or don’t know how to work with them on the listing side.  Furthermore, agents don’t know how to educate their buyers, and then the buyers cry, “We hate bully offers!  They’re so unfair!” when all the while, the agent could have simply prepared them from the start.

Sure, but ask the successful buyer, who submitted a well-thought-out, well-timed bully offer, thanks to their experienced and capable agent, and that buyer will rejoice in the existence of the bully offer.

It’s all about perspective.

The “problems” with bully offers have been around for some time.

Consider this February, 2017 article in the Toronto Star, where I was interviewed:

“Toronto Realtors Warned On Handling Of Pre-Emptive Offers In Red-Hot Market”

Back in the 2017 madness, agents were starting to detail in the listings, “Seller Reserves The Right To Accept Pre-Emptive Offers Without Notifying Anybody,” and that was clearly illegal, and wrong.  As I’ve written in this space many times before, it seems as though these agents felt that if they disclosed that they were going to break the rules, then breaking the rules would be okay.

Last week, when the OREA press releases dropped, I was interviewed again by the Toronto Star for this article:

“Shove Bully Bids Out Of Housing Market, Says Real Estate Association”

I don’t know if I came off as the dissenting agent in this article, but I merely aimed to convey what I’ve been saying for years: agents need better training!  There are too many real estate agents, too many part-time real estate agents, too many crappy ones, too many that can’t speak English, too many that can’t read or do math, too many that lie, cheat, and steal, and too many that make the rest of us look bad.

And if training was more stringent, and agents were able to get out into the field with more knowledge, maybe we wouldn’t be having all these issues with bully offers.

For years, the curriculum at “OREA College” – as though this is actually a college, was so out of touch with the way some markets worked, specifically Toronto.  The education and training reminded me of so much of what I endured in university, which is textbook-knowledge, and zero real-world application.

Most of what a real estate agent actually needs to know in 2019 is found through experience, and the curriculum should strive to reflect this.

I firmly believe that there should be some sort of articling phase for new agents, just like there is, er, was for lawyers.  But it seems the societal-bar has been lowered to a half-inch above the ground for lawyers now too.

In the United States right now, four states — California, Virginia, Vermont, and Washington — allow aspiring lawyers to take the bar exam without going to law school. Instead, they are given the option to apprentice with a practicing attorney or judge.  What is the world coming to?

The single-greatest change I’ve seen in organized real estate since I started my education back in 2003 was the new curriculum announced via Humber College, slated to being July 1st, 2019.  This will mean an aspiring agent may spend years in a classroom, rather than mere months.  Not only will this deter the wanna-be part-time, fly-by-nighters, but it will also raise the stakes for those that want to make this a career.

Despite OREA’s announcement last week, I refuse to believe the answer to the bully-offer-problem is to eliminate them altogether.

Having said that, if bully offers are banned, I won’t object.

I currently use bully offers to my advantage when working on behalf of buyers, and I know the ins and outs of how to work with or around them when representing a seller.  But the concept of the bully offer in itself is a bit odd.  A property is listed with a day and time to review offers, but, the seller doesn’t need to abide by that date.  Then what’s it all for?

That’s what I wondered the first time I had ever heard of a bully offer, which must have been ten years ago.

An agent in Winnipeg posted on Friday’s blog video:

“In my market in Winnipeg vendors are only allowed to move an offer date back only.  They also are not allowed to accept an offer prior to an offer date.”

That makes sense, does it not?

I can argue both sides of this, and as I’ve noted, my disagreement with the notion of banning bully offers has more to do with my disdain for the inexperienced, uninformed agents who refuse to learn the ropes, than the “fairness” of bully offers to begin with.

There’s a hybrid solution here somewhere, of course.

Perhaps an offer date can be moved up by 24 or 48 hours.

It would allow for a bully offer to be presented by the buyer, and considered by the seller, while providing time for other buyers and agents to get their ducks in a row.

Of course, this only works if the listing agents do their job, and contact every person who has expressed an interest in the property.  So a simple fix isn’t that simple after all.

You want my prediction?

Bully offers are here to stay.  Don’t shoot the messenger.

As for the other two parts of the OREA press release – escalation clauses and disgorgement, I’m in favour of both proposals.

I wrote about escalation clauses two years ago:

June 2nd, 2017: “What Is An Escalation Clause?”

For the record, I have never seen an escalation clause in an offer.

I don’t know another agent who has seen an escalation clause either.

In my mind, they are illegal.  There is no two ways about it.

If a listing agreement that doesn’t contain a list price isn’t binding, then how can an offer that doesn’t contain a bid price be binding?  True story.  You can’t sign a listing with a seller and say, “We’ll fill in the price later.”  The listing agreement isn’t binding, so you have to put in something for the price.  By the same token, you can’t submit an offer with no price, and include a clause that continually increases your bid price by X-amount.  You just can’t.

I do believe that these escalation clauses are only prevalent in certain areas, among a certain demographic.  But they seem to be problematic enough for OREA to need to weigh in on it, and frankly, I’m surprised.

Banning escalation clauses is a no-brainer.  OREA got it right here.

“Disgorgement” is defined by Investopedia as:

Disgorgement is repayment of ill-gotten gains that is imposed on wrongdoers by the courts. Funds that were received through illegal or unethical business transactions are disgorged, or paid back, with interest to those affected by the action. Disgorgement is a remedial civil action, rather than a punitive civil action.

While OREA isn’t looking to take agents to court, they are recommending that the Real Estate Council of Ontario, through the disciplinary process, use disgorgement as a punitive measure.

The first time I met with Tim Hudak, I told him that being fined by RECO isn’t really a deterrent, since agents might make a $20,000 commission and get fined $5,000.

With disgorgement, agents would forfeit anything they earned from transactions in which they acted illegally or unethically, and while I still don’t think this would discourage agents (many can’t see past tomorrow…) it would ensure that agents aren’t benefitting from filthy lucre.

I can see situations where I like this “new” OREA, and situations where I disagree with them.

But discussion can never be a bad thing, and it has agents and market participants talking.

Now let’s just see if all this results in action…

Written By David Fleming

David Fleming is the author of Toronto Realty Blog, founded in 2007. He combined his passion for writing and real estate to create a space for honest information and two-way communication in a complex and dynamic market. David is a licensed Broker and the Broker of Record for Bosley – Toronto Realty Group

Find Out More About David Read More Posts

Post a Comment

Your email address will not be published.

29 Comments

  1. Francesca

    at 9:14 am

    David, I know how you feel about the the whole Masters event. My husband is a huge golf fan and player and every year he blocks out the entire Masters Weekend so he can stay home and watch it . In fact this year his aunt invited us over for dinner and we had to decine because of it. As someone who has no appreciation for golf, I can’t understand his obsession with this event or any golf tournament for that matter!
    As for the whole bully offer banning, it’ll be interesting to see if this actually gets approved. I can see both sides of the coin especially if you are the seller vs the buyer. However I do think more transparency is needed during real estate transactions and that realtors should be obliged to act in the most ethical way possible. Although you are right in saying that the fines are not high enough to act as a deterrent it seems. I’m always surprised to how many people end up in real estate as a default career or a change of career and then don’t last more than a year doing it when they realize how much competition there is and how much effort it takes to actually make it in this industry. If it’s harder for people to become licensed less people will attempt it. It reminds me of teachers college..before it became a two year post graduate degree so many people I know decided they wanted to be teachers especially after having kids (summers off, great benefits, pensions etc) and then they couldn’t find full time jobs once they graduated. Now that it’s a two year commitment less people are willing to attempt to become a teacher as a secondary career path. Maybe once the time it takes to be a licenced realtor changes this year we will see less fly by night realtors as you mention.

  2. Condodweller

    at 10:56 am

    I would look at any proposed change in two ways: 1. does it improve the buyer/seller experience 2. does it improve the image of the industry. Note I left out agent experience.

    What are the pros and cons of bully offers from the buyer’s point of view?

    Pros: It helps a good agent secure a deal for the buyer. A good agent may obtain a higher price for the client

    Cons:
    – undercuts the rest of the buyer pool leaving them frustrated. It leaves buyer’s scrambling to move up showings and creates stress by pressurizing the offer process which also leaves buyers frustrated. Bad for #1 except for 1 buyer and some seller and bad for #2.
    – the seller may give up some $$ not having crazy offers, or may lose a buyer who doesn’t come to offer night. My verdict on this is to ban them since while it benefits a few, it frustrates all the rest thereby negatively reflecting on the industry.

    Escalation clause:
    Since it never happens in Toronto I would say ban it but if it does have a place in some areas then it may warrant a look. But if one can’t make a legal offer than it’s a moot point.

    Disgorgement:
    For this to really be a deterrent I think returning the gains is still insufficient. There has to be pain for the agent. Simply returning the ill gotten profit puts them back on square one. They should have to return the profit and pay a significant fine to deter them from doing it again. This is of course contingent on enforcement. There has got to be investigation and enforcement in place otherwise it’s a joke. This would be good for both #1/2.

    Improving the industry’s image and removing pressure and frustration from most of the buyers have got to be a good thing. Bully offer can be argued both ways but banning them would level the playing field and improve the industry and as a side effect, it will make agents’ lives easier in managing showings.

    1. Condodweller

      at 11:07 am

      While I started breaking out the pros and cons for buyers and sellers, I ended up including both under the buyer. Sorry about the confusion. I have this odd habit of not proofreading my post prior to posting but then I end up reading it after it’s posted :-).

    2. Housing Bear

      at 10:23 am

      RE: Disgorgement and putting the agent back to square one.

      Maybe not. The agent may still need to pay taxes on the income that was taken away from them.

      1. Condodweller

        at 2:46 pm

        This would actually open up a whole can of worms. Suppose the income is earned and the “take away” is a fine where the agent ends up paying taxes on it. Would that not be taxing a none-income i.e. literally a tax on nothing? I was thinking the person never earned the money that was returned.

        Another intriguing question becomes what happens to the “fine”. If it’s “illegally” double siding a deal where one “side” is deemed ill-gotten it can be a significant amount over time. Is it returned to the seller? Does the brokerage keep it? Does the governing body keep it? Does the government get it?

  3. Condodweller

    at 11:21 am

    Regarding spoilers, I sometimes don’t mind them as it’s actually liberating in that it saves me spending hours in front of the TV. While it’s very frustrating when someone spoils an event I find it actually only frustrating for about 5 seconds and then life goes on…..without having “wasted” of TV watching. What I do find extremely frustrating is when I do commit to watching something like tennis and let’s say two quarterfinals are broadcast at the same time and both channels give live updates from the other court. I’m watching one and plan to watch the other PVRd ones but every once in a while the commentator will blurt out things like Federer just won his second set without warning.

    I mean why do they feel the need to do that? Do they not realize that people may have PVRd both matches and want to watch one after the other? If I am watching live and really wanted to get updates about the other game I can just google it or follow live updates on my phone. If they must give updates why not give a spoiler alert? Yeah, first world problems!

  4. Derek

    at 11:28 am

    To what extent is the client (buyer or seller) obligated to abide by any regulations or rules governing agents? Or, to what extent can a buyer or seller find a way to do what they want regardless of the rules that govern agents? For example if there was a prohibition on agents submitting bully offers ahead of a review date, what power would there be to stop you submitting one without an agent? Or the seller from accepting it? Fire the listing agent, take the offer, pay the commission to the agent you fired. Would or Do the rules govern the parties or the agents?

  5. Robert

    at 1:29 pm

    What needs to be prohibited is the practice of intentional underpricing for the purposes of bidding wars. This creates chaos/panic and leads to extra price appreciation because people are panicking.

    Get back to normal old days when houses are listed at market values.

    The only problem is it’s very hard to enforce (I.e. who can decide/prove if it was deliberately underpriced)

    1. jeff316

      at 3:57 pm

      Whose market values? Mine? Yours? The young couple that wants the sale conditional on getting their bid accepted on their next home? The grandmother trying to cash in to fund her retirement? The weirdo from out of town who will only sell if he clears a certain amount?

      Where is the chaos? Where is the panic?

      1. Robert

        at 9:24 pm

        I understand what you saying and that is why I was saying that very hard to enforce. But trust me… every single realtor knows when they deliberately set price lower! For the purposes of selling at higher price in comparison if they listed at market value. They do it on purpose and this teqniqie works very well and drives prices higher. Otherwise they would not do it. As simple as that

        1. Franky B

          at 9:14 am

          How about you pick a threshold, say 5-10%, and if a house sells for more than that, it needs to be relisted at a higher price and you repeat the process.

          1. Condodweller

            at 3:13 pm

            Housesigma has a “sigmaestimate” value on each listing. I looked at a few listings in a building I know and it seems pretty accurate. Sometimes the listing price is the lowest, closing price the highest with the sigmaestimate in the middle. I have seen some where listing/sold prices were reversed. In some cases all three were within a few thousand dollars while in others the list was $40-50k below their estimated value.

            If the author of housesimga can come up with an algorithm which can estimate actual values this well, perhaps the governing body can also do it and impose a reasonable limit on the deviation.

            This comes down to agent competence again as any buyer using an agent should be advised by that agent what the real value should be. The problem is how does the buyer confirm this in case the agent is incompetent?

            I would have no problem with a rule that does not allow a listing price more than 5-10% below an accurate estimated value. Allow for special cases where there is a reason why a similar unit would be significantly below the rest like water/fire damage etc. which couldn’t be easily circumvented for a “normal” listing.

        2. jeff316

          at 9:26 am

          How does listing for a “lower” price send prices higher? How do we enforce arbitrary price controls on individual products that are all unique?

          1. JL

            at 9:46 am

            How about the seller sets all the conditions they want as part of the sale offer (x price, y closing date, no financing condition), and if a buyer comes along that meets or exceeds the price (and is the highest price) and agrees to all those conditions, you have to accept the offer. That way you could never set a price lower than what you would accept, because if a buyer came along and offered it you would be obligated to sell.

    2. Not Harold

      at 1:35 pm

      What about overpricing?

      If it’s illegal to accept an offer above your price surely it should be illegal to accept an offer below!

      This should also be extended to salaries. You personally should be banned from ever asking for a salary increase. You’re committing fraud by claiming to be wiling to work for salary x and then asking for more a year or twenty down the line.

      Hell we should take back all of the raises you’ve had in your career since your first job in highschool!

    3. Kyle

      at 2:58 pm

      Why does any of this need to be prohibited? Let me get this straight, the Seller has something many buyers want which gives him leverage, he also pays the commission for his and the buyer’s Agents, but yet you feel like he should be forced to give up his leverage so that naive buyers don’t feel sore about losing?

      How about we try a different approach, where buyers learn the true value of properties and where they realize that it is them who is wasting everyone’s time by bidding on properties where they are nowhere close to the eventual transaction price (aka the market price).

  6. Jennifer

    at 1:37 pm

    Until we see statistics on why they are so bad, I dont currently have an issue with bully offers since it is optional to the seller and buyers are all on the same playing field.

    If seller doesn’t want to entertain, they dont have to up-front. If they do, then any buyer can submit and knows that they need to see the property ASAP or somehow show interest.

    If agents dont know how to deal with them, a course or online materials to agents could help solve that issue, as opposed to the more drastic solution of banning. And as someone previously mentioned, the sold listing should include a note that it was a pre-emptive offer, which would denote to agents to use that sale price with caution for comps.

    The entire selling process has to be reviewed and revamped. Picking and choosing things without stats is not the right way to do it, and it has to be done with the interests of sellers and buyers being at the forefront, not agents.

    On another note, if someone is interested in a property and submits a bully offer that is rejected, what are the chances they wont come back on offer night. My feeling is slim. And that they would likely come back higher provided there are other bids. Anyone know the stats?

    1. Batalha

      at 3:06 pm

      “If someone is interested in a property and submits a bully offer that is rejected, what are the chances they won’t come back on offer night? My feeling is slim. And that they would likely come back higher provided there are other bids.”

      I totally agree. What would be the motivation for a “bully-offerer” to just walk away if their pre-emptive offer wasn’t accepted? If they want the property, they will, at the very least, remain engaged in the process. To channel Bones McCoy, I’m not a psychologist, but it seems to me….

    2. Condodweller

      at 3:21 pm

      “what are the chances they wont come back on offer night.”

      I’m sure David could provide some numbers based on his experience but I would think that if the offer is strong it could go either way. If they really want the property they will probably be there on offer night, however, they may reduce the amount if there was a premium built in, in order to entice the seller to accept it. If the property was worth let’s say $600,000 and I really wanted it I might make a bully offer for $650,000 but if it was declined I might come to offer night with $630,000.

      However, if they are using it to get to the front of the line and have three properties they like, they might submit a bully offer on each one by one if the first one is declined. If a subsequent offer is accepted, obviously, they won’t be back.

      1. Verbal Kint

        at 9:17 am

        Knowing David, I don’t think he keeps track of how many failed bullies return and how many don’t.

    3. jeff316

      at 3:59 pm

      A smart buyer a) offers their best offer as a bully bid, and b) walks away after having a bully offer rejected.

      Because after a buyer submits a bully offer, the seller now has a sense of how much they want the home and how much they have to spend.

      1. Batalha

        at 4:40 pm

        But surely a “smart buyer” wouldn’t necessarily “walk away” immediately, unless he/she isn’t really so smart. He/she would at the very least have to consider the possibility that no one will subsequently top their offer, in which case they’re still very much in the game (and possibly at a lower price point than that in their bully offer). Absolutist statements about hopeful buyers and sellers alike ignore both market forces and human psychology.

        1. jeff316

          at 9:37 am

          Then they can let the seller come back to them after the offer night failed to get the seller a price close to the bully offer.

  7. Bijan Soleymani

    at 3:10 pm

    Abraham Lincoln was a self-taught lawyer. Don’t know if the law is so much more complicated these days that it is impossible to do without law school. It seems most lawyers still learn more on the job than in school.

  8. Batalha

    at 3:27 pm

    Could we perhaps consider altering the catch phrase of this post (and myriad others online and elsewhere) to “first world white people problems” or some such? Just a suggestion.

    1. Not Harold

      at 1:40 pm

      Because Toronto has lots of successful people from all sorts of backgrounds.

      And because there is still discrimination and violence against people because of their ethnicity and religion even if some people would say that they’re “white”.

      Just ask Michael Ignatieff about his opinion about Ukrainians, especially Catholic Ukrainians.

  9. Carl

    at 2:50 pm

    In every other market, the price listed by a seller is the asking price. It means that the seller is willing to sell for that price if nobody offers more.

    But RE is special, we are told. It’s not like other markets. OK, fine. So if the listing price doesn’t mean the usual thing, what does it mean in MLS listings? Does it mean anything?

    The only answer I have heard so far is that to figure out what the listing price means, I should hire a RE agent who will interpret it for me. And not just any agent, but a really good one, because there are many bad ones out there, and they have no idea.

    1. Mxyzptlk

      at 4:29 pm

      Exactly what “every other markets” are you talking about? Have you never heard the term “OBO”?

  10. Whaaa?

    at 4:37 pm

    Maybe we should all be a little more concerned about workers getting decent wages rather than fulminating over how to coddle people who can apparently borrow a million bucks they don’t know how to spend wisely.

Pick5 is a weekly series comparing and analyzing five residential properties based on price, style, location, and neighbourhood.

Search Posts