The divide between those who love condo amenities and those that have no use for them is growing rapidly.
I’m interested to know what you think…
I chose that photo of a luxury resort’s amenities for two reasons:
1) It’s freezing cold outside, and I think we could all really use a vacation to a tropical place like that.
2) I see huge parallels between condominium amenities and luxury resort amenities, in that most of the time, you never use them.
My fiance and I went away to St. Lucia last December, and we were drawn in by, among other things, the fantastic resort and all the amenities!
There were two fully equipped gyms with weights and cardio machines, tennis courts, badminton, volleyball, soccer nets, basketball, billiards, and even courses in the pools on scuba diving and snorkelling! On the beach there was access to windsurfing, kayaking, hobie cats, and hydro bikes!
We brought all our workout gear – running shoes, gym shorts, and maybe even an 80’s headband or too!
And how many times did we hit the gym?
Zero.
How many times did we play basketball, tennis, or volleyball?
Zero.
We did what most people do: we swam in the ocean, took some guided tours, rented a jet-ski once, hung around the pool, and explored the local markets each and ever day.
We didn’t have the time nor the desire to run on a treadmill in a gym while watching the BBC or CNN, and yet I’m sure if we went again, we’d both bring all our workout clothing.
I see a lot of the same thing when it comes to condominium amenities in downtown Toronto.
Amenities are great, and they’re definitely a selling point for most buyers, but when you get right down to it, I’m not sure that people use them nearly as much as they think.
There will always be those condo-owners who believe that the whole reason for living in a condo is to have all the conveniences of life right at your doorstep!
And there will always be those condo-owners who think amenities are a complete waste, and who would rather have low maintenance fees.
But I’m finding that nowadays, the argument never seems to end in a ‘shrug’ with people saying, “No big deal either way.” Buyers are either looking for low-maintenance buildings with no money wasted on amenities, or they’re looking for a building that has on-site drycleaning next to the dog-walkers…
I’m on the fence when it comes to the entire value proposition, although there are some amenities that are just ridiculous.
Let’s discuss the main ones.
Gym. I’ve only used the gym here at Vu about 4-5 times, and in five full years at my old condo, I didn’t use the gym once, but I do see the value in a gym so long as it’s new, with relatively new equipment, and it’s well lit with windows and natural light. Nobody likes working out in the gym down in P2, and nobody likes pumping iron with actual iron weights from the 1930’s.
I’m going out on a limb here, but I think the condo gym appeals more to women then to men. I think women do a lot less weights then men, and I think men that do use weights often need 80-pound dumbells, which no condo gym has. Personally, I fall into that category, since I need access to heavier weights that a condo gym won’t be able to provide.
I also think that the the one thing a condo-gym will never have is the gym culture that you find at a GoodLife, or wherever you’ve been going for the last decade. I’m accustomed to working out in 10,000 square feet, with duplicate machines and benches that can accommodate a huge crowd, as opposed to the one lonely bench in the condo-gym. I’ve been going to gyms for 15 years now, and I don’t think I could get used to working out in a tiny condo-gym for the rest of my life.
But overall, I’d say a condo gym is the most valuable amenity.
Rooftop Terrace. Many condo-owners don’t appreciate the rooftop terrace as much if they happen to live in the penthouse right underneath the terrace, or have a killer view, but when you live in downtown Toronto, there’s a lot that can be seen from the 25th floor of your building, with a panoramic view.
Of course, most people associate the rooftop terrace with the BBQ Area, and that’s an amenity with a ton of draw as well.
Often the rooftop terrace will have a hot tub (the pool at 55 Stewart has been well documented), a tanning area, or a quiet corner with a gazebo where you can catch up on some light reading.
A rooftop terrace that doesn’t have any frills, probably isn’t worth having at all. I mean, if there’s no BBQ, no hot tub, no garden, no adjacent party room, and a view of a brick wall, then what the hell is the point?
Party Room. Or if you want, “multi purpose room.” I have no clue why some condos use that term…
A party room has a lot of use if you happen to live in a small condo and you want to host a gathering with more than the four people who can comfortably be seated in your living room, although the rules and regulations in your building might seriously impact your enjoyment. In some buildings, you can only use the party room if you hire a security guard (seriously – even if you have two people!) and fork over $1,000 in rental fees and damage deposits. Although in other buildings, the party room is too easy to access, and it means a drunken teenager can have their friends over and puke everywhere…
A good condo party room should have a kitchen (bonus if there’s an actual stove), a bar, a big-screen television, seating for at least 20-30 people, male/female bathrooms, and a billiard table is a nice touch too!
Of course, I think the make-or-break criteria for a good party room is where it’s located in the building. A party room adjacent to the rooftop terrace is awesome! My old building at 230 King Street featured a nice-sized party room with a kitchen, bar, tv, and a few tables and chairs, but having direct access to the rooftop terrace and BBQ’s was a major bonus! Then, there are awful party rooms like the one at 333 Adelaide Street which is small, dark, and if memory serves me correctly – has no window! What draw is there to a room on the 4th floor with nothing but four walls and a ceiling?
Pool. Here’s where we start to get away from the necessary amenities (gym, rooftop terrace, party room) and into the amenities that you either love, or have no use for.
I enjoy swimming in the pool if I’m at a 5-star resort in the Caribbean, but I have absolutely no desire to swim in the 20-metre pool in the basement of a condominium, down the hall from the boiler room.
There are a handful of notable condo pools in Toronto, but I find that has less to do with the swimming. 33 Mill Street seems to be the meeting place for Toronto’s best looking (and most tanned…) 20-something’s every Saturday in July & August, as the 6th floor pool has been nicknamed “Miami Beach.” But I don’t think the pool itself is the attraction, and maybe, just maybe, it’s the string-bikini’s, six-packs (abs and beer), and tribal tattoos on 16-inch biceps.
As for the rest of the downtown core, I’m not sure if most condo-owners will get enough value out of a pool to justify the cost of upkeep.
Games Room. I’ll play billiards if I’m at a bar, but do I really need a billiard table on the 9th floor of my condo? Do I need a dart-board, a foosball table, and air hockey?
Again – I think some of these things have use if they’re linked together with another amenity, such as a billiard table in a party room that will get used if you have 50-60 people over for a Christmas party. But an actual dedicated room in the building with a pinball machine and a ping-pong table? Who the hell has that kind of time?
Library. This one is a complete waste, in my mind.
These rooms are a nice place to get away from your husband, wife, kids, or all of the above, but just because a room has two dozen books doesn’t make it a “library.”
This serves as a place to store old magazines and books you’ve read, instead of taking them to Goodwill.
Basketball or Squash Court. There’s a basketball court at 313-323 Richmond Street, and one at the Merchandise Lofts on Dalhousie. Those that live in these buildings will tell you they love the fact that their condos have a basketball court, but they’ll probably also admit that they don’t play basketball.
Remember – these amenities cost the condo corporation money, and that raises your maintenance fees! Unless you’re playing basketball 1-2 times per week, what’s the point?
Bowling. This one drives me crazy. I know that a couple buildings in Toronto have a bowling alley, and I know that my old friend CityPlace is one of them, but how often do you people BOWL?
I ran into a girl once who raved about CityPlace because it had a bowling alley. So I asked her, “Were you big into bowling when you grew up?” She looked at me like I was nuts and said, “Eeewww……NO!” So I asked, “Then why the hell do you want a bowling alley in your building?” and she simply twirled her hair and said, “Because I think it’s cool.”
Virtual Golf & Batting Cages. I love golf, and I love baseball. But that doesn’t mean I want to pay an extra few dollars every month in my maintenance fees so I can have a virtual golf room that will always have a lineup, and that I would never have time to visit.
Movie Theatre. Seriously? If you live in the sticks, like 30 miles from the nearest theatre, I guess this makes sense. But if you live in downtown Toronto, you’re a stone’s throw from about a dozen movie theatres, each with fantastic picture, sound, and a sticky floor!
Rich people have movie theatres in their houses, and I guess their kids want them in their condo buildings. But what’s wrong with just having six friends sit on your couch in your living room to watch whatever stupid vampire movie is all the rage these days?
Lounge. I don’t even know what this is supposed to be. I think there’s one at 21-25 Carlton Street….I can picture it in my head, but I’m not 100% sure if that’s the place. I remember magazines on tables, a few couches, and people with a look that says, “What the hell are we doing here?”
Guest Suites. I actually happen to think that guest/visitor suites have a lot of value (if you have friends/family from out of town who don’t know the city and don’t want to stay at a dirty $50 hotel, or an over-priced $200 one), but unfortunately, I see a lot of condominiums that sell off their guest suites because they just don’t get enough use.
.
And last, and certainly least…
Business Centre. What is this – 1991? Since when is it impressive and/or necessary to have an entire room dedicated to Internet?
A “business centre” makes sense when you’re in a third-world country and the hotel has a room where you can access your Gmail and maybe send a photo to those back home, but why the heck do we need these in our condos? Doesn’t everybody in the downtown core have WiFi on their laptops, iPads, and streaming right into their brains?
.
If I’ve missed anything, let me know!
And of course – please tell me if I’m wrong. If you absolutely LOVE the “lounge” in your condo, tell me why!
calcho
at 7:42 am
I think the pool is the tipping point. Everything after is excessive. The items before seem to get a fair bit of use, are nice for resale purposes, and don’t seem that costly in terms of maintenance fees.
In your experience, do you know of any condo that had closed their pool permanently and turned the space into something else that is less costly and more useful?
David Fleming
at 9:45 am
@ calcho
No not closing a pool, but closing amenities – yes!
86 Gerrard was a building with no money in the reserve fund and outstanding debt, so they turned their party room and gym into three condominium units and sold them off last year! Quite innovative!
George
at 12:56 pm
I visited my friend’s condo in North York last year. We were trying to use his “party room”, but the security staff on duty refused to allow us to bring any food or drink (wasn’t even alcoholic) into the room. That seemed ridiculous to me.
Vilija
at 1:07 pm
My friend rents at 120 Homeood av. We love the pool and the gym there, and they are usually always busy. Amazing amenities, and probably worth the high fees. You are right though, I think people buying in this buidling would do so because of all that is offered. I would love having both indoor AND outdoor pool options if that were possible, for swimming lengths in the winter. I have heard of some buildings having 2 pools, or one outside open year round. How many buildings in town can offer that?
Darren
at 5:02 pm
I can tell you that the recently occupied california condo in south etobicoke has both indoor and outdoor pool. There was a rumour that the other two buildings sharing the outdoor pool (the tides and iloft) might share the indoor pool too, but I can’t confirm that.
Horrido
at 7:47 pm
In general, **I** have no use for amenities (although I do use the gym occasionally). However, I know **other** people use the amenities, so I think it would be potentially attractive to future buyers. In other words, amenities are important for resale value. As long as the choice of amenities is reasonable, I have no problem supporting them with my condo fees.
I agree that things like squash court, bowling alley, library, batting cage, and business centre are ridiculous. These amenities are NOT reasonable.
GL
at 9:53 pm
I’d have to agree that for me the amenities in my condo (Zip in LV) are mostly useless and a waste of my maintenence fees.
– business centre: used it once the second day after I moved in before my internet was hooked up, never been back
– pool: haven’t used it
– party room/movie theatre/guest suites/billiards: haven’t used them
– gym: used a bunch of times, probably should use more 🙂
Perfect Fit
at 10:40 am
I think the gyms would get a lot more usage if the condos would allow the personal trainers to train the condo owners in them. But nope, liability issues crop up and they categorically reject all trainers, even if they are a legit business and have their own WSIB and Liability insurance.
So if a personal trainer lives in the condo, s/he can use the gym and invite clients over to use it. But that same trainer can’t go to another condo gym. *scratches head*
Jim
at 8:41 am
Hi David, great blog, glad I found it. I agree with some of your opinions but I think you are generalizing in most cases. I live in Palace Place and frankly none of our amenities are anything like you describe. Our business centre includes a conference room, fax, photocopier, coffee machine and a desk for a receptionist if you need one! Our pool overlooks the sundeck and the waterfront trail, I don’t use it much but it’s nice to know I can if I want. Our Library contains well over two thousand books and the policy is they only accept “new” fiction, our movie room has a 100″ screen and is great for sports in particular. Our gym contains all the weights you would ever need including the heavy barbells and you can have a personal trainer come in if you want, I do. We have a shuttle bus to downtown, valet parking, a party room on the 47th floor overlooking the lake and city, a putting green, huge barbecue area and our fees are about $0.77/sq.ft and include the amenities and heat, hydro, air and basic cable.
There are great buildings out there you just have to look!
Charboil Equipments
at 6:47 pm
Great work! That is the kind of info that are meant to be shared around the net. Disgrace on Google for not positioning this submit upper! Come on over and visit my site . Thanks =)
Sen
at 1:01 pm
All gyms should have a power rack. It doesn’t take up much space, and it doesn’t cost that much money.
I guess the worst part might be liability issues from people getting injured who don’t know how to use the equipment. But put a sign up to reduce liability…have training sessions…