Reefer Madness……….In Condos?

Toronto Politics

7 minute read

September 16, 2019

So here’s a little something about me…

I haven’t smoked marijuana since February 10th of 2005.

It’s been over fourteen years.

Coming out of university, I was an occasional marijuana smoker.  I’m not one of those people, usually south of the border, who says, “Have I ever smoked?  I mean, I tried it once in college.”

Because I tried it, tried it again, and then continued to try it, as the mood struck.

But I remember smoking with a friend of mine on the way up to a cottage, and something just didn’t feel right.  That night, I was sick as a dog, and I ended up laying on the floor all weekend.

When we left the cottage, I said, “I’m never smoking again.  Ever.”

And I never did.  It was as simple as that.

I was surprised when the federal government legalized marijuana.

I was always in favour of decriminalization, but legalization seemed like a quantum leap!

I thought Stephen Harper’s mandatory minimum sentences for marijuana-related offences were appalling.  Imagine a 16-year-old kid wanting to smoke a five-piece with his girlfriend in the basement of his parents’ house, getting a mandatory sentence?

But legalization to the point of the government selling it?  That’s from one to zero pretty fast.  And the worst part: they’re not even good at it!

You know how I feel about government control.  I’d like to think that the government making billions of dollars from marijuana sales would lower taxes, increase public services, or both.  But I’m not convinced that we’ll feel the effects of this financial windfall.  It’s funny how the money always seems to vanish.

So here I am, at age 39, with a very different perspective.

When I was younger, I didn’t care about anything, but I didn’t know much either.  I thought, “What’s the harm?”

Everybody has an opinion on marijuana, and they stretch from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Even writing this blog post, I figured that some people would think, “Oh my god, he’s smoked marijuana before!  I would never trust him to help me buy or sell a condo!” and then others would think, “Oh my god, he’s critiquing legalization!  I can’t believe this asshole!”

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t, right?

I had no issue with the legalization of marijuana, but rather I opposed (you guessed it) the government’s involvement in selling it.  I also didn’t trust that the government had any idea what they were doing, and so far, I think I can pat myself on the back and say that I was dead-right in that regard.

I never felt that the government, who, to be perfectly honest, used legalization to help win the 2015 federal election, was ready to deal with the aftermath.

The legalization process has been…….interesting.  To say the least.

I still don’t really understand how this “legal” marijuana market is supposed to work, other than (sorry to be cynical) to know that the government is going to use it as a cash clow.

There was an article in BlogTO back in the Spring that described the problem with “illegal” and “legal” weed shops:

“Toronto Can’t Just Get Rid Of Illegal Cannabis Stores”
Lauren O’Neill
April, 2019

While we’ve read no shortage of opinion pieces on the legalization of marijuana nationwide, this is one of the most Toronto-specific pieces I’ve read, while taking all of the various laws into the equation, many of which are borderline contradictory, and then examining how pot is actually being sold to consumers.

Marijuana legislation is federal, as are the criminal offences that go along with it.

But the province of Ontario oversees licensing of storefronts.

And here in Toronto, the “legal” and “illegal” stores look exactly the same.

From the article:

How much would it suck to go through all the trouble of opening a legal weed store, only to have dozens of people do the exact same thing without paying for permits, inspections or meeting any sort of government regulations?

How much would it suck to then watch these people not only get away with their illegal operations, but do so while luring your customers away with cheaper prices?

Probably as much as it would suck to sink years of your life into building a retail cannabis business and then learning that only 25 of such stores could exist in all of Ontario — and that the owners of those stores would be chosen at random.

It’s been nearly one month since Doug Ford’s PC government allowed the first wave of brick and mortar retail cannabis stores to open across Ontario. Three have launched so far in Toronto, where five licenses were issued in total, but many consumers aren’t pleased with consistently long lines and higher (than pre-legalization) prices.

So, like the rest of Canada, Toronto continues to buy black market weed.

Roughly 20 unlicensed dispensary storefronts are still up and running across the city as of April 25, in addition to more than 100 illegal marijuana delivery services.

You can find them all on WeedMaps, a popular online cannabis community that’s been listing these types of businesses for adult consumers in North America since 2008.

It’s not that police and bylaw enforcement officers can’t find these illicit dispensaries — I mean, operators are advertising their locations and menus online for all to see.

The problem is that no level of government can (or will) shut them down for very long.

Bookmark the article and read it later if you don’t have time.

It’s fascinating, and personally I would love to see a follow-up.

How does this all connect with real estate, you might ask?

Well, is it illegal to smoke marijuana in your condo?

Good question.  Thanks, I asked it…

Is it illegal to smoke marijuana in your condo if you’re an owner?  What about if you’re a renter?

Is it illegal to smoke marijuana on the condo balcony?  What about in the courtyard?

To be perfectly honest, there is just as much confusion around marijuana rules in condominiums there are around legal/illegal weed shops, and that’s saying something.

Here’s an email I received from a client the other day:

Hey Dave:

We’ve been in the condo now for just over a month and it’s awesome!  Thanks again.  It was worth the wait.

One question I have for you is about pot rules in the condo.

We got an email from property management saying that weed was smelled in our unit on August 30th and then there were attachements about rules in the condo (I’ve attached to this email).  So what does that mean? That weed was smelled in our unit? Was somebody in our unit, like can they enter the condo and look around? Did somebody narc on us? Somebody that lives on the floor maybe?

How come people can smoke cigs on the balcony but we can’t smoke weed?  How is somebody going to know?

We’ve only ever rented before and have no clue how this works.

Also is this something the lawyer should have told us about? I assume these docs were reviewed by him?

Big thanks!

This makes me miss living in a condo.

It also makes me not miss living in a condo.

To the first point: I always liked a good battle where I deemed the condo board and/or property manager were overstepping.

To the second point: God, I hate condo boards.

I would like to think that I know everything about real estate in Toronto, but on this matter, I do not.

In my honest opinion, I can see this matter going to the Supreme Court of Canada one day, because nobody is going to agree on the exact intersection between human rights, federal and provincial laws, and the mandates of a private condominium.

I told my client that this isn’t a simple matter, and there’s no easy answer.  Years ago, I might have just said, “Screw it, smoke away.  It’s your goddam place.”  But this is going to be such a battle, and we’re only just beginning.

A condominium corporation is a private corporation, not public, and the corporation is free to make rules as they see fit.

Section 58, specifically of the Condominium Act, allows condo Board to amend rules pertaining to the use of common elements t promote the safety of owners.

It’s through this specific section of the Condominium Act that condominiums are banning residents from smoking marijuana on condominium balconies, as well as banning them from growing weed in the units – both of which are rights enjoyed by Canadians under federal legislation.

So who is right, who is wrong?

In September of 2018, my beloved Auntie, who shall remain nameless, emailed me about this.

Auntie is a product of the 1960’s, and now as she approaches her 70th birthday, and has put in her time with society, the workforce, kids, and the like, she is all about dat ganja.

Auntie loves a good cush weed.

And who’s to blame her?

Really – who in the world is to blame her?

If she wants to toke on her balcony, stare at the city from high up above, and space out for a few minutes, or a few hours, who is going to blame her?

Not the federal government, since weed is legal.

But what about her condo board, who sent notices out to residents saying that smoking marijuana on balconies was banned?

Yes, this happened.  And although there was an “out” so to speak, Auntie didn’t like that either.

The condo board took yet another step over the line, as some would argue, by suggesting that existing residents could have their marijuana smoking “grandfathered in” by providing a note from a doctor about medical cannabis.

“Not their business about my medical history, I say,” wrote Auntie last fall.  “The cooking and perfume smells are worse imho.”

I tend to agree that for a condominium corporation, via the condo board, to ask residents for notes from doctors is mothering them.  It’s none of their business, but at the same time, if private corporations enjoy the rights afforded to them by acts such as the Condominium Act of 1998, then perhaps they can ask residents for doctors notes.

And yet it just doesn’t sound right.

Here’s how the rule looks on paper:

I have to admit, I’m completely out of my depth here.

I’m not a lawyer, but I think even the most brilliant legal minds in our city will have a hard time explaining this with any degree of certainty.

Even the last point – forcing landlords to include clauses in their leases, banning the smoking of marijuana is questionable.

Now how about this: last week, another client of mine received a notice from his condominium’s property manager telling him that his tenant is smoking weed on the balcony, and directed the owner to stop the tenant.

Have a look:

Something about this doesn’t sit well with me.

The tenant was observed on September 1st and September 3rd smoking cannabis.

Who is observing?

To use the word my client above used in her email, who’s the narc?

This email also referenced a “first notice,” suggesting that property management is counting, and insinuating that a second notice and third notice might trigger a further course of action.

At the end of the day, I see all of this going to court.  That’s the only place where this can be settled.

Occupying the moral high ground is not a new phenomenon, especially when it comes to condo boards.  But the one area where this ceases to be about morals and can be claimed as the true duty of a condominium board is with respect to “protecting” the residents.  If marijuana smoke and smell is deemed a disruption, or in any way affects the right to quiet enjoyment, then the condo corporation has a leg to stand on.

Perfume and cooking smells might be worse smells, to some.

So again, this is heading to court.  To the highest court, in time, I do believe.

I’ll let the legal experts, those actual, and self-described, to weigh in…

Written By David Fleming

David Fleming is the author of Toronto Realty Blog, founded in 2007. He combined his passion for writing and real estate to create a space for honest information and two-way communication in a complex and dynamic market. David is a licensed Broker and the Broker of Record for Bosley – Toronto Realty Group

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17 Comments

  1. Condodweller

    at 10:28 am

    “If marijuana smoke and smell is deemed a disruption, or in any way affects the right to quiet enjoyment, then the condo corporation has a leg to stand on.If marijuana smoke and smell is deemed a disruption, or in any way affects the right to quiet enjoyment, then the condo corporation has a leg to stand on.”

    I was thinking this all the way from the beginning to the end of this post. I think you have answered your own question. Case closed in my mind.

    I’m no lawyer, however, I still remember my high school law teacher explaining how various laws work: “You can swing your fist all you like, as long as it doesn’t come in contact with your neighbour’s nose”.

    In a similar vein, it’s perfectly legal to play dance universe in your living room but your neighbour below might have something to say about his/her lack of enjoyment of his/her unit.

    I think condo boards are well within their rights to ban the smoking of marijuana. My old condo board was contemplating banning cigarette smoking in units as the smoke was making it’s way through the cracks into other units many of whom were definitely not enjoying it.

    I think it’s the same concept for Marijuana, and even if I did smoke it, I would understand why it’s banned. I have lived in apartments and condos since the early 80ies and I never smelled marijuana anywhere I lived until the intention to make it legal was announced. In fact, I didn’t even know what it smelled like until I went to university and my girlfriend pointed out to me how she didn’t like the smell while walking downtown as we walked by someone smoking it. My first reaction was: “oh, that’s what it smells like?” and the second, probably because we were outside, that it wasn’t so bad. But I definitely do not want to smell it in my condo.

    Having said, that, it’s completely different smelling it from other units in my condo. Personally, I would rather have my neighbour cook curry in my kitchen than smell their marijuana in my unit.

    IMHO the only valid argument would be for medical use of marijuana but even then I would question if an alternate way of using it would provide the same benefit such as edibles.

    As for narcs and who is “monitoring” the unit is pretty straight forward. It’s the affected neigbour.

    1. Not Harold

      at 11:14 am

      The thing is that edibles currently aren’t legal!

      Again with our idiotic legalization process.

      The best thing is the intersection of different rights and laws.

      Condo boards can ban things that landlords don’t have the ability to control. Like condos can levy fines for not stopping behaviour that the landlord can’t create a sanction for nor get an eviction order at LTB. You’d need serious fines before it would be worth litigating in divisional court but a tenant can get a win at LTB and/or Human Rights Tribunal. Also helped by the different standards of procedure, evidence, and that LTB/HRT are not exactly level playing fields.

      I like condos banning smoking in units (sadly they can’t/don’t ban certain things from being cooked.. 10 years of cumin in oil will do serious damage to an entire building…) but they shouldn’t be banning smoking on balconies. The fire hazard can be reduced by admonitions and fines/damages. A balcony/terrace nearly entire point is to be able to grill during the day and have a whiskey and a cigar on the occasional evening.

      1. m m

        at 11:51 am

        Arguments aside on what should or shouldn’t be done, balconies are most often common elements, and condos prefer to ban things on common elements rather than inside units. They are the low-hanging fruit.

        1. Not Harold

          at 5:23 pm

          Exclusive use common elements..

          A good decision re liability for repairs but idiotic in terms of ability of boards to micromanage.

          Sadly no condo law will be well thought out to keep the liability attached to condo corp but allow exclusive use to be truly under control of individuals. Nowhere near enough voters live in condos, nevermind politicians, and definitely not for long enough, to get the lived experience embodied in law.

      2. Maha

        at 8:04 pm

        Many buildings have ERV units where the air intake is on the balcony. Even with windows closed the smoke will come into neighbouring condos. One smoker on a balcony can pollute the indoor air quality for many other people. Personally I’m very happy that my condo building has banned smoking on all common elements, including balconies. That said, I generally would never narc out on a regular neighbour who occasionally lights up. However, I do complain when people staying in the AirBnB next door decide to hang out on the balcony and smoke.

    2. steve

      at 11:35 am

      “Personally, I would rather have my neighbour cook curry in my kitchen than smell their marijuana in my unit.”

      … well, there is the rub … YOU prefer that, but your neighbour may prefer pot smell as opposed to curry. What are their rights then? Unless you can be equitable and reduce ALL smells equally, the courts will likely rule that unless the smell is overbearing and at unreasonable levels, people may have to get used to is as part of living in close quarters.

      1. Monica Sisson

        at 1:42 pm

        What about the health effects of second hand smoke? I agree, I’d rather smell cooking than any smoking smell, especially MJ, but also cigarettes. We recently put out a memo about making our building smoke free, actually. Smoking is a health hazard. I work hard to be healthy, and why should I have to put up with being affected by someone else’s unhealthy habit?

        1. Jimbo

          at 7:38 pm

          Work harder to afford a townhouse or house?

          You shouldn’t be able to take away a human right because you don’t like something? Until they ban indoor smoking I think you should be hoopped. They have banned it in cars with minors only a matter of time before we have the appetite to do the right thing and ban it in the home.
          Until then I think people should have the freedom to live life the way they want to in their home.
          Other factor is MJ/cig wafting into your place with kids exposed. That really sucks.

          1. Izzy bedibida

            at 9:17 am

            Working harder to afford a townhouse???
            If the townhouse is not properly sealed, the same issues of smoke wafting into condo units will appear. The building code needs to be updated to factor in the wafting of smoke into units.
            My condo board is talking about having a unit owner “properly seal” their unit after they present a doctors note etc. to management for the legal use of smoking marijuana in their unit.

        2. Jimbo

          at 8:19 pm

          I was just being a smart ass.

          With a townhouse you have at most tow neighbor’s instead of two beside and multiple below and above that can annoy you.

          Other advantage is you can modify it yourself if you are not in a Strada. I would personally pay to modify my own of it was an issue and it was affecting my daughter.

  2. Francesca

    at 11:44 am

    As someone who has used medical cannabis even before it became legal I can tell you I hate the smell of it and prefer using cannabis oil although it is more expensive. Some people have severe allergies to both marijuana and smoke and smells can definitively permeate between cracks between units or through open doors/balconies. If someone specifically chooses to buy/rent in a building that states not type of smoking of any kind anywhere they should have the legal right to have this enforced especially if it exacerbates medical conditions like asthma. I remember reading an article about a family having to move out because their son’s room shared a wall with a condo where someone smoked cannabis on a daily basis because he was severely allergic. Isn’t this similar to possibly why some boards ban pets? So people with severe pet allergies can avoid buildings with this issue too? With the increased population and density of living in big urban centres like Toronto these type of issues will only become worse as more people choose close proximity living due to cost and convenience. I’m sure this issue is common in any type of shared wall living, semi, townhouse but possibly worse in a condo where you have shared hallways and units above, below and besides you.

  3. Ed

    at 12:21 pm

    What would be the reason for banning vaping?
    From what I understand it doesn’t give off the odor that mj does.

  4. Jennifer

    at 1:24 pm

    I too got a condo notice about a change in condo by-laws and was wondering where did this come from? I can maybe understand the smoking of it INSIDE the unit since it stinks and permeates the hallways etc. But I dont understand banning it outside on your balcony – it smells just as bad as cigarettes and from what I understand most condos dont ban that.
    But whats the deal with growing it? I have seen the issues with grow-ups (humidity high moisture issues etc) but does that still apply with a few plants? Is it electrical use? What’s the risk or how does it affect others enjoyment of the condo?

    1. Monica Sisson

      at 1:45 pm

      Smoking on balconies comes in anyone’s open window, and stinks up their unit. Same with cigarette smoke. Both are health hazards. Why should a non-smoker have to close their window to avoid another person’s unhealthy choices?

    2. Ed

      at 4:27 pm

      I understand that the plants also give off a strong odor

    3. Jimbo

      at 7:41 pm

      Mold is a huge issue with growing plants. Last thing a condo wants is mold permeating into the walls of the building and then having to remustered remediate.

  5. lui

    at 6:30 pm

    Those who think townhouses and houses are safe from weed smell is sadly mistaken.My co worker owns a house in Leslieville and the house next to him is rented out and the smell of weed everyday overwhelmes his house to a point most of the windows next to the rental was sealed with chalking 365 days a year.Those windows are never opened.The police wont do anything and the landlord lives in Montreal under a shell company says its legal they smoke.

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