In With The Old, Out With The New?

Development

5 minute read

May 13, 2009

That phrase is backwards, right?

Isn’t it supposed to be the other way around?

There are some 20-year-old condos in our city that don’t get much attention, but they still sell every day.  There’s a buyer for everything, but do young people buy old condos?

oldhouse.jpg

One of my favorite movies of all time is Dumb & Dumber.

I love the line delivered by Lloyd Christmas when he asks the little old lady to watch his stuff while he gets change for the paperbox: “Hey, I guess they’re right.  Senior citizens, although slow and dangerous behind the wheel, CAN still serve a purpose!

That’s just one of my top fifty or sixty favorite lines from the movie…

The condo boom of the new millennium in Toronto has provided us with hundreds and hundreds of new condos in Toronto, all less than ten years old and it’s quite possible that as many as half of all buildings downtown are five years old or less.

I’m very in touch with today’s condo-buyer, and the one trend I’ve noticed the most in the past couple years is that people want new, new, and new!

One of the first questions people ask is, “How old is the condo?”

Whether or not they are asking the question for the right reasons, remains to be seen.

Many people are just suckered in by the condo name or the flashy advertising package.

When I first heard about Charlie Condos, I thought that the name and marketing for the building was so incredibly stupid that it might just work.  And, it did…

But what do we do with all those old condos then?  We can’t exactly tear them down and start over, can we?

There are pros and cons to older buildings, but in my opinion, the cons are more prevalent.

Here are the most notable issues:

Out of Style
It goes without saying that as time passes, everything goes out of style.  Clothing, music, and especially household decor.  In the case of an older condominium, the issue isn’t just the unit itself.  A unit can be renovated and updated, but the common areas and the rest of the building might not be.

Look at the hallways – the carpet, the lighting and fixtures, the numbers on the doors and the door handles, and the baseboard trim and/or ceiling mouldings all might be 1970’s or 1980’s style.

The elevator probably has an ancient panel with buttons that remind you of your going to the 5th floor of your doctor’s office.

And the lobby, which may or may not have a concierge (behind a large glass booth), is probably mirrored everywhere with bright maroon tile and couches with plastic coverings.

You can always renovate your own unit, but the rest of the building may take a while to follow suit, if it ever actually does.

Amenities
Some older buildings actually have more amenities than newer condos, but most don’t.  The complex at 705 & 725 King Street West is one of the oldest condominium complexes in the city and has more amenities than anything I’ve ever seen.  Indoor and outdoor pools, sauna, hot tub, indoor squash courts, movie theatre, grocery store, and the standard crummy exercise room and party room to boot.

But most older buildings don’t offer much in the way of amenities, and the younger demographic is looking for the exercise room that will save them $50/month on a gym membership and offer the convenience of having a gym at home.

Higher Maintenance Fees
Maintenance fees increase with time as buildings eventually fall into disrepair and need major renovations and thus require major expenditures.  The day-to-day costs increase as well, and the result is higher maintenance fees; often as high as triple what it would cost per square foot at a brand new building.

Sometimes these fees are factored into the sale price of a condominium unit, for example, a condo that might sell for $399,000 at a new building might “only” cost $329,000 if the monthly fees are $990 compared to perhaps $485 at a new building.

But many people would rather pay more for the condo, which they’ll undoubtedly recoup when they sell, and not have to incur a ridiculous expense each month for fees that don’t pay for any amenities.

Lack of Outdoor Space
The largest problem I have, personally, with older condos is the lack of outdoor space.

I find that many older buildings have “solariums” instead of patios, but that just doesn’t cut it for me.  A solarium is really just a useless room, often a very awkward shape, that is separated from the living room by a glass panel.  Most people end up taking out the glass panel over time and just extending the length of the living space.

Going back to 700 King Street West, you see nothing but glass on the outside of the building since there isn’t so much as a Juliette-balcony.  I’d go stir crazy in a condo that has no outdoor space!

Renovation NEEDED!
You could always put a positive spin on this by saying that an old, decrepit condo is really a “blank canvas” for somebody to come in and renovate and decorate to their own tastes and preferences, but for the most part, people are interested in older buildings for the space and the location, and renovating is just a cost of doing business.

There are condos in which practically everything must be done!

Imagine ripping out all the old carpet and flooring, and bathroom/kitchen tile, and putting down new hardwood, broadloom, and nicer and more expensive tile.

Then, every square inch of the condo needs to be painted, and all the old light fixtures, door handles, and probably the doors themselves need to be replaced.

The entire kitchen has to be scrapped; from the appliances themselves, to the cabinetry, to the counters.

The bathrooms are disgusting, both because of the decor and the twenty years of mildew, and a new toilet, sink, tub, vanity, mirror, light fixture, and floor are a must.

While you can’t change the windows (condominium by-laws), you can replace the curtains/blinds and the rods.

And I’m thinking that the closet doors (bedrooms, hallways) are coming on and off the tracks and need to be replaced with something more functional and updated.

Did I miss anything?  Yeah, probably a few things.

And as I wrote in my post last week, renovations are NEVER easy, even in a condo where everything has to be done from scratch.

I definitely see the value in renovating, updating, or expanding old houses, but I just don’t see the appeal to taking on such a massive project in an old condo where you have high maintenance fees, crummy amenities, old and unflattering common areas and decor, and of course where the average age is above sixty.

A friend of mine was recently looking to purchase at 61 St. Clair Avenue West, aka “Granite Place.”  God, even the name sounds old

We devised a short list of lifestyle changes she would have to make:
-start eating dinner at 4PM
-learn to play bridge
-take interest in Elvis
-only throw parties that have everybody home safely and in bed by 8:15PM

If you’re 26-years-old, why in the world would you want to live in a building that is older than you are?

I’m not going to be suckered in by the name Fashion House Condos, but I’m sure not going to play backgammon with the Golden Girls either…

Written By David Fleming

David Fleming is the author of Toronto Realty Blog, founded in 2007. He combined his passion for writing and real estate to create a space for honest information and two-way communication in a complex and dynamic market. David is a licensed Broker and the Broker of Record for Bosley – Toronto Realty Group

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4 Comments

  1. fidel

    at 10:40 am

    I prefer older condos simply because they tend to be larger than the current shoebox-sized units coming onto the market. I hate most of the newer kitchens and find granite counters unappealing.

    And I’d prefer living in a quiet building full of seniors than say, the ‘young & hip’ city place where insulation between units is minimal so you hear every sound coming from the hard partying 20 yr old student renter next door.

    But a balcony is definately a must. I hate the buildings on the south side of King st between Niagara & Bathurst for that reason alone.

  2. David Pylyp

    at 1:10 pm

    This is an excellent article and a vital point to make with first time buyers.

    There are many buildings that may lack the amenities that are popular today with the “new” condo crowd.

    But the older buildings have larger square footage on average per suite, obviously higher fees as the maintenance is higher [on the older] but on an overall purchase choice as a price per square foot are sometimes a much better deal.

    Your point is well made.

    To your continued success.

    David Pylyp

  3. The Smiths

    at 10:37 am

    We bought an old condo – it is larger than equivalent new 1+1s. We don’t care about the amenities.

    That said, I agree, a balcony would be great, and it does look “old” on the external, shared areas. I guess we’ll see how much we care about those things…

  4. Jay

    at 2:49 pm

    Its all a balancing act: You don’t live in the condo lobby so if it looks like a hotel, so what; you can’t or don’t always want to party in the party room. Do you really care how ancient your neighbour is, as long as they don’t bother you–you’re not buying a social club membership as the only interaction is probably a “hello” on the elevator. The bottom line is to get what you can afford, and get the most for what you can afford. That means most square feet of living space, the most coverage of ownership costs (utilities etc) covered by maintenance fees. If it doesn’t have deeded parking, forget it or buy a scooter or rent a zip car. Everything will get old in time. So if you plan in moving out in less than 5 years, buy new/newer. If you plan on living there until paying off the mortgage, then an older building could be a better deal.

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